tlitody
Well-known
sounds like you really want to go digital. So why keep any of your film cameras if you can't get film developed locally and don't want to mail it or develop it yourself. This doesn't add up.
sevres_babylone
Veteran
The M10 will probably be better than the M9, but even if it is, it is not going to render the M9 "obsolete."
Although I expect the M10 will not be a step down from the M9, not every newer digital model has been seen by users to be better than their predecessors. Although I was happy with my Ricoh GRD2, the majority opinion seems to be that that the improvements were not worth the loss of the unique black and white rendering the original GRD had. Similarly, not everyone thinks the Canon G series got better with each new model, although most people think they got things right in the latest version, after some missteps along the way.
That said, I think that an M10 will likely have some improvements -- a display with a quicker response time for one; possibly improved higher ISO performance. But I don't see how these, or any other improvements, makes the current model obsolete.
Excuse my ignorance, but did incorporating a light meter in the film Leica bodies make the earlier ones obsolete. Did the M7 make the earlier film Leicas obsolete?
kshapero
South Florida Man
Nice first post, welcome aboard.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Shucks, I just CLA'd my M3. I'll see how it runs when it is due for it's next one in forty years. Maybe then......
ricnak
Well-known
Hey Vince.
I am an M9 user with remorse. My regret is that I can't afford two of them!
Cheers
helen
I am an M9 user with remorse. My regret is that I can't afford two of them!
Cheers
helen
fates
Established
So I'll chime in too. I'm a M9 owner for all of 48 hours now. I traded in a wild collection of large format lenses and a Plaubel 69W in for mine.
The first 3-4 hours was nothing but buyer's remorse. I didn't have any real modern glass (just odd LTM stuff) and I was getting terrible noise above 640 iso. Then I turned off the defaulted DNG compression. Big difference in the color noise (I'm actually surprised more people haven't complained about the compression).
Then I picked up a 1970 50/2 Wetzlar... spent a few hours shooting.... pixel peeped... printed several 13x19's... & all I can say is WOW.
This camera instantly became worth it.
I think it out-performs my 5D mkII (at least for certain types of shooting). I'm not joking around. The lack of an anti-aliasing filter on the sensor allows for awesome sharpness. The way the full frame sensor draws, renders colors, and the amount of adjustment leeway in the DNG's are all EPIC.
Would I buy one outright? Probably not. If you've got gear that is not in any real circulation of use... and you want to shoot with a FF rangefinder? Yeah, trade it in & do it.
The first 3-4 hours was nothing but buyer's remorse. I didn't have any real modern glass (just odd LTM stuff) and I was getting terrible noise above 640 iso. Then I turned off the defaulted DNG compression. Big difference in the color noise (I'm actually surprised more people haven't complained about the compression).
Then I picked up a 1970 50/2 Wetzlar... spent a few hours shooting.... pixel peeped... printed several 13x19's... & all I can say is WOW.
This camera instantly became worth it. I think it out-performs my 5D mkII (at least for certain types of shooting). I'm not joking around. The lack of an anti-aliasing filter on the sensor allows for awesome sharpness. The way the full frame sensor draws, renders colors, and the amount of adjustment leeway in the DNG's are all EPIC.
Would I buy one outright? Probably not. If you've got gear that is not in any real circulation of use... and you want to shoot with a FF rangefinder? Yeah, trade it in & do it.
mani
Well-known
Seems like you've totally made up your mind, so I'm not entirely sure what the point of the thread was(?) I guess sometimes we all need some group reassurance before sinking a large chunk of money into any consumer product...
FWIW - I got into Leica (and film) cameras about 5 or so years ago. Bought an M6 and a brand new M7.
After a while, I bought a new RD1s and because I used that so much I also bought a new M8. Three or four months later I sold both the M6 and the M7 (the M7 had maybe 4 rolls through it - and I sold at a massive loss - because I had some romantic idea that it should go to someone who'd actually use it.
Now here's the point: after maybe a year, I realized that the absolute BEST shots that I'd ever taken - the ones I came back to over and over, and could dwell over for minutes and even hours - had all been taken on those few rolls of film that had gone through the M6 and M7. Of all the thousands upon thousands of digital shots I've taken over the years, none of them had the same emotional quality of the film shots. Sometimes it was hard to know why, but digital - however processed - just didn't have that ineffable quality.
I sold the RD1s and gradually I've built-up my film cameras again. Never been happier. I still (very often) use the M8, but even a Leica CL with the Summicron40 loaded with new Portra400 gives me way more satisfaction than any digital camera. I also love scanning 6x6 Hasselblad shots - I get files that are something like 78 megapixels of non-Bayer-interpolated information - and every single scanned pixel exudes gorgeousness.
Hope you enjoy your M9 - like I said, I think you've made up your mind already. I sincerely hope you don't make the mistakes I made on your journey.
FWIW - I got into Leica (and film) cameras about 5 or so years ago. Bought an M6 and a brand new M7.
After a while, I bought a new RD1s and because I used that so much I also bought a new M8. Three or four months later I sold both the M6 and the M7 (the M7 had maybe 4 rolls through it - and I sold at a massive loss - because I had some romantic idea that it should go to someone who'd actually use it.
Now here's the point: after maybe a year, I realized that the absolute BEST shots that I'd ever taken - the ones I came back to over and over, and could dwell over for minutes and even hours - had all been taken on those few rolls of film that had gone through the M6 and M7. Of all the thousands upon thousands of digital shots I've taken over the years, none of them had the same emotional quality of the film shots. Sometimes it was hard to know why, but digital - however processed - just didn't have that ineffable quality.
I sold the RD1s and gradually I've built-up my film cameras again. Never been happier. I still (very often) use the M8, but even a Leica CL with the Summicron40 loaded with new Portra400 gives me way more satisfaction than any digital camera. I also love scanning 6x6 Hasselblad shots - I get files that are something like 78 megapixels of non-Bayer-interpolated information - and every single scanned pixel exudes gorgeousness.
Hope you enjoy your M9 - like I said, I think you've made up your mind already. I sincerely hope you don't make the mistakes I made on your journey.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
I'm in a similar position at the moment Vince. I don't use film for work anymore at all, I use D3 bodies and my M8 - which I hadn't expected would happen due to the crop factor but have surprised myself with how perfectly 'useable' it is under working conditions.
However, I'm thinking of trading in all my old film cameras ( many Nikon F bodies several D bodies, MF, Olympus OM) and maybe even the M8 so that I can go with one Leica M9. The lack of a crop factor would be a huge difference, no more need for various filters, doubling up on lenses so one can have an IR filter on and another be ready for film use. No more unused, or at least under used cameras sitting in cupboards and drawers around my house. As far as use of film or digital goes, as you're a professional you'll already know whether the time has come for you to make a/the change; finances and clients requirements will tell all.
Everyone here at RFF loves using cameras, fondling cameras and even collecting them, but we can only use them one at a time so when it comes down to the nitty gritty of financing a big purchase, and the M9 is a big purchase, it makes a great deal of sense to sell anything that still has monetary value yet little other value to you. So you have your Uncle's old camera which is worth something to you but many other cameras which are no more than unused tools which could be 'traded in' for one brand new and very useful tool.
Its tough to sell all your gear, but if its not being used isn't it just being wasted?
P.S. If this is for business make the decision in the cold light of day, romantic notions and the opinions of those who do not need to make a living from this kit may be costly; if its for personal photos as much as or more than work - than emotion, romance and sheer desire can play any part you want.
However, I'm thinking of trading in all my old film cameras ( many Nikon F bodies several D bodies, MF, Olympus OM) and maybe even the M8 so that I can go with one Leica M9. The lack of a crop factor would be a huge difference, no more need for various filters, doubling up on lenses so one can have an IR filter on and another be ready for film use. No more unused, or at least under used cameras sitting in cupboards and drawers around my house. As far as use of film or digital goes, as you're a professional you'll already know whether the time has come for you to make a/the change; finances and clients requirements will tell all.
Everyone here at RFF loves using cameras, fondling cameras and even collecting them, but we can only use them one at a time so when it comes down to the nitty gritty of financing a big purchase, and the M9 is a big purchase, it makes a great deal of sense to sell anything that still has monetary value yet little other value to you. So you have your Uncle's old camera which is worth something to you but many other cameras which are no more than unused tools which could be 'traded in' for one brand new and very useful tool.
Its tough to sell all your gear, but if its not being used isn't it just being wasted?
P.S. If this is for business make the decision in the cold light of day, romantic notions and the opinions of those who do not need to make a living from this kit may be costly; if its for personal photos as much as or more than work - than emotion, romance and sheer desire can play any part you want.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
No regrets about an M9 -- though for mono, I still use film. I just like it better.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Interesting that a few of you have suggested buying large format cameras -- I just sold my Toyo 45A a few months ago and don't miss it one bit. And I sold my 8x10 about 3 years ago. I haven't had a (commercial) request for large format for about 8 years. The only thing I miss about large format is platinum-palladium, but I could still do them with my 6x9cm folders (which of course I haven't done in about 10 years!).
Selling the M2 and the M5 are going to sting a bit (the M2 I've had for over 20 years), but quite honestly they are not being used. As far as a backup M-mount camera, I have the Olympus E-P2, which fine, but has its limitations as well. And the D700 kit isn't going anywhere, as that's my bread and butter for work (and I have a D200 backup). I don't use the D700 for personal work at all. I'm looking for a different kind of experience than the D700, and one that I can integrate with both my professional and personal work. The film cameras don't seem to be doing either at the moment. But, I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth putting all that money into one singular piece like the M9. Those of you who are M9 owners seem to indicate that it is, so maybe I'll see if I can slowly raise the funds and go from there. And I am keeping all my Leica glass (M-mount stuff and all my screw mount), so if I decide down the road to go back to a film M, I'm sure there will be plenty to choose from.
Selling the M2 and the M5 are going to sting a bit (the M2 I've had for over 20 years), but quite honestly they are not being used. As far as a backup M-mount camera, I have the Olympus E-P2, which fine, but has its limitations as well. And the D700 kit isn't going anywhere, as that's my bread and butter for work (and I have a D200 backup). I don't use the D700 for personal work at all. I'm looking for a different kind of experience than the D700, and one that I can integrate with both my professional and personal work. The film cameras don't seem to be doing either at the moment. But, I'm just trying to figure out whether it's worth putting all that money into one singular piece like the M9. Those of you who are M9 owners seem to indicate that it is, so maybe I'll see if I can slowly raise the funds and go from there. And I am keeping all my Leica glass (M-mount stuff and all my screw mount), so if I decide down the road to go back to a film M, I'm sure there will be plenty to choose from.
deirdre
Well-known
First of all, this isn't how I make my living.
I'd be inclined to keep something you can use for work that's medium format, even if it just is a folder.
I'd also be inclined to keep an M film camera. An EP2 isn't an exact backup, of course, due to the crop factor. (I use an M8 and a GF1, so similar boat in that sense.)
I don't know exactly how many cameras you have vs. how many you're giving up, but I think I would want the option to do film.
In my own case, I couldn't justify an M9 as I wasn't making money at this and, while I could have afforded it, I figured that spending the extra on the travel to get the good photographs was where I wanted to spend the money. For me, the M8 was worth the money, but the M9 was too much of a reach.
I'd be inclined to keep something you can use for work that's medium format, even if it just is a folder.
I'd also be inclined to keep an M film camera. An EP2 isn't an exact backup, of course, due to the crop factor. (I use an M8 and a GF1, so similar boat in that sense.)
I don't know exactly how many cameras you have vs. how many you're giving up, but I think I would want the option to do film.
In my own case, I couldn't justify an M9 as I wasn't making money at this and, while I could have afforded it, I figured that spending the extra on the travel to get the good photographs was where I wanted to spend the money. For me, the M8 was worth the money, but the M9 was too much of a reach.
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gavinlg
Veteran
Get the m9 I say. It's an awesome camera and I think digital is definitely at the point where it's a better photographic medium than film in most ways. I just came back from Japan with 15 rolls of film - half color and half BW, and after spending a great deal of money having the color film processed, spending a great deal of time processing the black and white film myself, and then having spent something like 12-13 hours straight scanning, followed by more hours removing dust in photoshop, I can say using my 5d instead of film would have been quicker, easier, more versatile (changing ISOs), and the final photos would have been of better quality.
That's my take anyway.
That's my take anyway.
sanmich
Veteran
Just 2 more cents in the basket:
I would never be without a backup for any important piece of gear.
I have several bodies, and a couple of any important FL lens (28, 35, 50).
And I'm not even a pro...
The reliability of film gear also come frome the possibility to duplicate it and continue shooting while one of the bodies (or lens) gets it's CLA done.
You hate the logistics of film.
Think about the logistics of continuing shooting while your main tool is off a month (or more) just because the RF went out of whack.
Also, quite frankly, it depends much on whether you shoot color or B&W.
B&W home processing is so easy...
And there are some techniques to make ot even easier and cheaper.
As long as I shoot BW (and the avail of film is what it is) I would never move. My answer would be quite different if I had to deal with large volume pro jobs..
I would never be without a backup for any important piece of gear.
I have several bodies, and a couple of any important FL lens (28, 35, 50).
And I'm not even a pro...
The reliability of film gear also come frome the possibility to duplicate it and continue shooting while one of the bodies (or lens) gets it's CLA done.
You hate the logistics of film.
Think about the logistics of continuing shooting while your main tool is off a month (or more) just because the RF went out of whack.
Also, quite frankly, it depends much on whether you shoot color or B&W.
B&W home processing is so easy...
And there are some techniques to make ot even easier and cheaper.
As long as I shoot BW (and the avail of film is what it is) I would never move. My answer would be quite different if I had to deal with large volume pro jobs..
thegman
Veteran
I don't have an M9, and no desire to own one at either $7000 or $1000. In your position, if this is about processing, then find a better lab or develop yourself. Although I live in London, and have many labs, pro and amateur available to me, I still send it off for the sake of convenience. When the film is done, I don't have to pick it up, it arrives on my desk ready to scan or whatever.
Obviously if you want an M9, and can afford it, get one by all means, but I'd try some more options for your processing needs first.
Obviously if you want an M9, and can afford it, get one by all means, but I'd try some more options for your processing needs first.
Carterofmars
Well-known
I'm pondering the exact same question myself. Not sure what I'll do yet. I just love the feel of the film advance, loading, unloading. Then, pocketing those canisters, not knowing exactly what they may reveal. Sometimes, as weird as this may sound, I don't like the immediatecy (is that a word) of the digital.
thegman
Veteran
My feelings precisely.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I did something similar a year ago to go with the M9 for all my color and $$ work, and sold off a lot of stuff to do it. I've not looked back. I'd say the M8 is not a good choice for a backup only because of the filters- not having to deal with them is enough of a reason (I think) to switch if you can swing it. I've been using an M8 as a backup/second and the filters are just a real pain when moving lenses between bodies.
I've had zero buyers remorse- and have had zero problems with my M9- it has been 100% since day one.
I've had zero buyers remorse- and have had zero problems with my M9- it has been 100% since day one.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
No need to chimp- I have the screen off all the time, checking only when I would have used a Polaroid years ago. If you shoot DNG only immediacy is not the word that springs to mind.
Then there is always this idea...