Semi-OT: DSLRs similar to RFs?

Chris, actually I'm familiar with the history of the solid state imaging devices, having
had a video camera with a 2/3" Vidicon tube. My (mostly comical) rant has to do with the misuse of mathematics. It's bad enough what we're doing to language
("proactive") without mixing decimals and fractions.

You got a good thread going here. This is the sort of thing I used to see almost daily
a little over a year ago when I signed up, and it got everybody's synapses firing and
was very productive. For example, based on what Bill Mattocks said about his Pentax
digital, I now owe it to myself to add it to any short list I assemble.

One parting remark I can't let pass. I've seen the term for years--"prosumer". Does
this mean we can take the leftovers from the source words and have a category
called "confessional"? I'll turn that one over to Bill for analysis.

Fred
 
yossarian said:
One parting remark I can't let pass. I've seen the term for years--"prosumer". Does this mean we can take the leftovers from the source words and have a category called "confessional"? I'll turn that one over to Bill for analysis.
Click to expand...

All I can think of is the old saw about if 'pro' is the opposite of 'con', then that means "Congress" is the opposite of "Progress."

As for confessionals, they nearly explode when I come near them. You're not supposed to, but I call around parishes looking for deaf priests.

Last time, I was/am still doing penance until 2013. I pointed out to my priest that theoretically, he was giving me penance past when the Aztecs said the world would end. He replied that if the world ends before my penance is up, I may stop saying "Hail Marys" and making Acts of Contrition. However, if it fails to end as the Aztecs predicted, I can add eleventy-dozen more "Hail Marys" for being such a horrible little pagan.

I can't win.

Pax Vobiscum,

Bill Mattocks
 
I have a D200, which is bigger than the D70, which is bigger than the D50, but I have a good idea of how big the D50 is. The D50's performance at high ISO is supposed to be good, perhaps comparable to the D200.

I'd say that size aside, I think the D200 is just as effective, if not more effective, in low light photography as a RF when it comes to the quality of the output. The D200 is a professional grade photographic tool, and adjustment of aperture and shutter speed are very quick using the 2 dials, metering info is displayed in the VF. And whether you use AF or MF, I think it is quit fast.

That being said, no DSLR can compete with a nokton 40/1.4 on a RF for size and discreetness. The mirror still makes a sound flapping and it won't fit in a pocket.
 
yossarian said:
Bill, I'm no longer certain what I would characterize as a "win". Perhaps fewer or less
dangerous obstacles?

Fred
Click to expand...

Indeed. For in the end...

WE WILL ALL GO TOGETHER WHEN WE GO

When you attend a funeral
It is sad to think that sooner or
Later those you love will do the same for you
And you may have thought it tragic
Not to think of other adject-
Ives to think of all the weeping they will do
(But don't you worry)
No more ashes, no more sack cloth
And an arm band made of black cloth
Will someday never more adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.

And we will all go together when we go,
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we all will go together when we go.

We will all go together when we go.
All suffused with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance
Lloyds of London will be loaded when they go.

We will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be french fried potatoes bye and bye.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we all will fry together when we fry.

Down by the old maelstrom
There'll be a storm before the calm.

And we'll all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation,
In that grand incineration
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.

We will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning at the bar.
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.
And the party will be "come as you are".

We will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout,
And Saint Peter calls us all out
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.

You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas
Go directly. Do not pass GO. Do not collect two hundred dolla's

And we will all go together when we go
Ev'ry Hottentot and ev'ry Eskimo
When the air becomes uranious
We will all go simultaneous
Yes we all will go together when we all go together
Yes we all will go together when we go


Words and music by Tom Lehrer
Copyright Tom Lehrer
Click to expand...
 
sychan said:
I have a D200, which is bigger than the D70, which is bigger than the D50, but I have a good idea of how big the D50 is. The D50's performance at high ISO is supposed to be good, perhaps comparable to the D200.

I'd say that size aside, I think the D200 is just as effective, if not more effective, in low light photography as a RF when it comes to the quality of the output. The D200 is a professional grade photographic tool, and adjustment of aperture and shutter speed are very quick using the 2 dials, metering info is displayed in the VF. And whether you use AF or MF, I think it is quit fast.

That being said, no DSLR can compete with a nokton 40/1.4 on a RF for size and discreetness. The mirror still makes a sound flapping and it won't fit in a pocket.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The links I provided earlier - my photo partner's camera is a D200, she had just as excellent results at ISO 3200 as I did. Mine cost a few grand less, but that's about the only difference. The D200 is, as you say, professional-grade.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
I never use my DSLR for street stuff because it is not quiet, is bulky, and has that annoying LCD (I know I could turn it off, but don't know how) that turns on like a beacon, letting the world know I have a camera.

My D70 is for sale . . . if you want one. D70 body, 2 sigma zooms and 1 sigma 28mm lens, all in good condition, perfect glass, 2 memory cards (1.5GB total), a camera bag, a Manfrotto tripod. Lens hoods. Everything for the D70 - all for sale / trade.
 
Trius said:
DIGITAL IS DEAD!!! 😀
Click to expand...

Yes, it is inorganic. Film is organic, but the horses hooves that the emulsion is made of are no longer functional in their original capacity. One might call that dead too. I wouldn't, but one might.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Issue: I don't like working with SLRs much anymore. Film or digital, I don't use 'em unless necessary for a given project. The rangefinders simply "have it", and suit my way of working just fine. When I need to get truly close-up-and-personal with something, I'll break out the Olympus OM2n and extension tubes (at least until I can replace it with a Nikon F3).

Rangefinders do indeed limit the degree of "mission creep" that SLRs engender: besides the fact that the lenses are usually smaller in size (though not necessarily in weight - no plastic stuff at all in 'em!), they are, of necessity, fewer in number. Since it turns out that a good 90% of all the pictures I've ever taken in my life were taken with focal lengths between 24mm and 135mm (I've owned as wide as 20mm and as long as 300mm), I don't regard myself as creatively hamstrung by my choice of camera. It's just amazing what gets done with just three lenses at hand (two, actually...the 90 often just sits back in the bag to watch).

As far as digital goes, the one camera that hits the nexus just right for me is Olympus' C8080: reasonable performance, a fixed-mount zoom that's surprisingly good (I think I've actually come to hate zooms in general: with perhaps one exception, the only good ones I've ever had were large and heavy enough to give me neck welts), and, at present, priced non-extortionately.


- Barrett
 
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My Rebel XT + 35/2 is surprisingly small. The noise level is fairly low, but still noiser than my Bessa R or Leica IIIa or any of the 70's RF's.

My Oly XA and Canonet QL17 GIII are irreplaceable for compactness and fast glass compact.
 
both

both

I have a mixed bag 3 digi cams 6 35mm and 2 aps. My main digital is a Minolta 5d, the AS is superb Ive taken pics as low as 1/2sec. It is very quick but very noisy, but in low light it shines, coupled with a fast zoom I can take photos under normal street lights, What I realy want though is a rangefinder with the AS built in, I did concider the epson but for all that is involved it is way over priced, most of my shooting is done between 35-100 so I dont have much need for an slr system and I prefer the quieter way of rangefinder shooting. Anyway attached are 2 trys at candids from the Canon.
 
This has been an interesting thread. Maybe it is to do with the fact I shoot most of my work with medium-format cameras, but no one has said anything about format (aspect ratio). When I buy a camera, the most important factor is format. I have never been a fan of the 35mm format as I find the area awkward to work with. Digital is basically the same thing and, for me, that is a turn off.

As far as camera type, rangefinders offer fewer compromises than SLRs, TLRs, or view cameras. I find them more natural to work with (and that is a very subjective opinion). BTW, it was the SLR that got me into photography, but I hardly use them anymore.
 
cbass said:
For those of you that own DSLRs, do you find yourself using them in situations where you might also use a rangefinder (e.g. low light, street, etc.)? Is it as fast as your RF? Are DSLR's easy to use manually? Please share your experiences.

.
Click to expand...
I was just reading about the new Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1. I think its what you are looking for. Speed dial same place as a RF. Aperture ring same place as your lens. And aparently, its similar if not a joint venture with Leica.
 
Gid, I enjoyed the article about Majoli. He stresses that it's necessary to learn to use your equipment in order to get better results. In my opinion, this is a lesson that may be lost on many photographers. Many (me included 😱 ) seek a "magic bullet", often in the form of new equipment, that will instantly improve our results rather than maximizing the potential of the equipment we already use.

It's that sentiment that has so far kept me from taking up a DSLR. As impressed as I am with the instruments themselves, I'm pretty happy with my RF and digital P&S cameras. I don't know if I want to learn a new system when I haven't fully explored the ones I already use.

That said, the upcoming panasonic DSLR looks very cool... (I know, I'm hopeless 😉 ).
 
Sometimes we look for a magic bullet, other times we simply are looking for a way to rekindle the love we once had for photography. It's all to easy to have the flame peter out over time, especially when other (trivial and important) matters consume our time, patience, and gest for photography. Experimenting with new gear can be the means to rekindle the flame. But yeah, most of the time we're just gear hogs! 🙂
 
Different for me.

Different for me.

For me I find that I use my dslr for completely different types of shooting than I do my RF. With both I have to think ahead and plan the shot if I want reasonable results. Both work pretty well for low light, both allow a fair degree of spontanaity but somehow they are completely different for me. I use the dslr when I want 1) fast zoom glass 2) auto focus 3) TTL auto fill flash.
I use the RF when I want 1) a camera with me all the time 2) to use film as the light is nice, etc 3) a view finder that I can see through 4) limited depth of field 5) the mobility and flexibility afforded by a light and simple kit.
I'm with you on the desire to keep from getting into another painfully stupic film vs. digital war. Do painters argue over whether water color is better/worse than oil on canvas? I'm just glad that we have both to choose from and use.
 
I can see where Chris's impression comes from. It's the complete absence of the film advance whining noise. Like an RF, a dSLR just goes 'click, click, click', all without the obnoxious 'njjjjiiiep, njjjjiiiep, njjjjiiiep'.

Hey, I just realized there's a good word for shutter action, while we still need an onomatopoeia for film advance 😉
 
Gid said:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844
Check out the link above. It concerns a Magnum photographer - Alex Majoli - who uses Olympus C5050, C5060 and C8080 cameras. Interesting POV which perhaps supports the idea that the tool isn't that important.
Click to expand...
Having used an Olympus C8080 and mostly liked it (which is saying a lot, given my general cool response to digital capture in general), I can see Majoli's attraction to it, which clearly shows in the quality of his photographs. And, using an 8080, as opposed to the honkin'-huge pro dSLR du jour for PJ work is hardly nuts - I'd do exactly the same thing if digital capture were a necessity for much of what I do (and I'll probably get an 8080 anyway, since a digicam does come in handy here from time to time, and the 8080 is a fantastic pinch-hitter).

- Barrett
 
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