Shaping up the Leica M10 and beyond…

[jaapv]

FYI, the sensor on the M10 and presumably S3 will not be Japanese, if credible sources are to be believed. It will be a dedicated development for Leica by a French manufacturer - and CMos. I will be hanging on to my M9.

 

[icebear]

Your projected M10 sounds like a two kidney camera to me! 😀

It wouldn't surprise me if it all happened though ... the current digital M, as good as it is, does need to compete in several areas if it's to remain viable outside it's current fan base. There's a lot more tasty opposition out there than there was at the release of the M9.

Hi Keith,
as it has been mentioned in other threads already, there are a couple of used M9 popping up here and there (I also bought used end of April) with very low no. of pics taken. I assume these had been purchased by folks "outside the fan base". I.e. not current or former Leica M film shooters. "Oh, a FF digital Leica, I'm get one" and then being confronted with a pretty basic camera, manual focus, manual f setting, no multi zone auto everything. They tried it got stuck in the learning curve and sold it off.

For me the M9, or M10 for that matter only appeals to Leica M users that are used to the RF and have a number of M lenses already i.e. the traditional fan base. Outside of this group there might be buyers but hardly shooters. Just my 0.02$.

 

[jsrockit]

I assume these had been purchased by folks "outside the fan base". I.e. not current or former Leica M film shooters. "Oh, a FF digital Leica, I'm get one" and then being confronted with a pretty basic camera, manual focus, manual f setting, no multi zone auto everything. They tried it got stuck in the learning curve and sold it off.

You'd be wrong in my case. I used the M2, M3, M4, M4-2, and M6 before ever owning the M8. Then after using the M8 for a year, I bought a M9.

On another note, it seems strange that people here seemingly get offended by what others do with their cash or by what camera they choose to use over a M9. The M9 is a great camera, but it is not the only great camera on the market. We live in a very weird time for cameras... we have access to the whole history of film cameras while being smack dab in the middle of the golden era of digital. I find that to be a great thing.

 

[icebear]

You'd be wrong in my case. I used the M2, M3, M4, M4-2, and M6 before ever owning the M8. Then after using the M8 for a year, I bought a M9. .....

Have you indeed sold off your M9 ?

 

[ramosa]

I just need a higher ISO with noise. 6400 would be perfect. A faster buffer would be much appreciated. And a rear LCD with a bit more resolution and clarity. That's all that's on my M10 wishlist.

Ditto, along with improved DR.

 

[ramosa]

Hi, i´ll taylor up my own m10.

real quiet shutter

And above all diferences between the m9 and m10 is the body shape....pray for a less thicker one...more like the original m´s

Would like these two changes, too.

 

[debugnus]

Leica already took another risk with the M-Monocrom. I'd imagine and Hope that it stays the same rangefinder camera but with the necessary advancements.

Regardless of anything, I just got my first M9, so I don't imagine i'll trade, unless it's worth it - but this quality already lol... oh the quality that already is... oh wow.
Thanks Leica for being "you"

 

[Nikon Bob]

I dunno, Leica may have to alienate it's traditional fan base somewhat by being more innovative, as the OP suggests, to grow its market share. They need new blood that can afford and want a Leica digital. It will be interesting to see what Leica does no matter what they wind up actually doing.

Bob

 

[folville]

I would not suggest Leica won't attempt to innovate or catch up to other manufacturers in some way with the M10. The M9M shows Leica engineers are still breathing. But if the past is to be any guide, we should recall that Leica didn't integrate a light meter in an M camera until 1971. No M had auto exposure until 2002.

I suspect the most realistic M10 predictions are those giving it a more capable sensor and possibly some sort of live view, and that's it, aside from incidental improvements like increased buffer, etc.

If I could add two items to my M10 wishlist, they would be a film advance-style lever to cock the shutter and improved corner performance of wide-angle lenses. I'm especially keen on the latter.

 

[gilpen123]

The M10 has a monochrome in ala carte orders..

 

[zwarte_kat]

video in Leica M10

video in Leica M10

It's funny that all these "innovative" features are things we already have on other cameras...

Anyway, as someone who does video for a living, let me break all your hopes that the M10 will be a magnificent video camera:

-No anti-aliasing filter is terrible for video. People are buying special filters from a company called "Mosaic Engineering" to INCREASE anti-aliasing (effectively blurring the image) on the 5D mark 2. Aliasing is much more of a pain on video, because stuff moves.

-To do video well on photo cameras is not as easy as dropping in a Cmos. The only camera companies who have been doing it well are the ones that also make video recorders: Canon, Panasonic, and Sony a little. Does Leica have a history in making digital video cameras? For now they have enough difficulty with digital photo cameras 😀

-Unless Leica is going with in-body stabilization, video is going to be damn shaky, especially with a small unergonomic (for video) body like that.

-That amazing resolving power of the M lenses and the new 20+ pixel sensor? Won't see a bit of that on a HD video. HD is like what, 4MP? It is actually bad if the sensor has too many MPs, though full frame does help here.

So the video on the M10 will not be for pros or PJs, who need more reliable and higher quality stuff. My canon 550D is probably a better video camera then the M10 will be. The video function of the M10 will be for the occasional family movie, and to play and try out how M lenses will look on full frame video. And there is nothing wrong with that.

And if you can afford an M10, you can also afford a small camcorder with it. For me the M10 doesn't need to have video at all, wasn't the whole point of it beauty in simplicity? I hope that they will hide it away in the menues and don't give it a dedicated button (the way Ricoh did it is good), not that I will buy an camera like the M10 anyway. If only the M9 was cheaper, that has everything I need for photos and nothing more. Just make that more reliable and responsive. I have different cameras for video.

 

[zwarte_kat]

However, I just got a Nex 5n. The video is amazing with my voightlander and Zeiss lenses... I'd say put the Nex 7 interior into the M10!

 

[Peter_S]

Keep it simple. I personally would like to see a M8 follow-up with quieter shutter, lighter housing, improved weather sealing, ISO dial on the body. 1,3 crop is OK as long as that keeps things simple and costs moderate. As mainly-50mm shooter I can look at plenty of good 35mm lenses, too.

The CCD in the M8/M9 was actually mighty fine, a bit better at ISO and less banding perhaps would be good, and I would highly appreciate better DR.
But I have realized that for my taste the best low-iso sensors are not good in the dark and so it be. Plenty of high-iso wonders out there, but the charme of the M8 files is something I would hate to see go for the sake of being able to produce clean files in bad light (I prefer Delta 3200 for that or just snap with the X1), there are plenty of excellent cameras out there for people who depend on high-iso performance.

That said, I would certainly also like to see a good EVIL CMOS system from Leica that also has some adequate solution for focusing M and R lenses, which would nicely go together with a digital M.

Peter