rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I've had an insane five or six days at work.
The local college kids returned to school starting last Thursday and they still have money to spend on non-essentials like lunch or dinner away from the campus so I have been cooking for just about twice as many customers as usual. Ordinarily I like this BUT this year 1/3 of my cooks is out with the flu(there are only three of us) so I and the other healthy cook have been covering six 14-16 hour shiftsand feeding 200 people or so.
The guy that's out is really sick so I'm not upset with him just a bit worn out by now.
So, I haven't had time or energy to take any pictures:bang:
This morning on the way home I walked by the court house park(as I do most nights) and noticed the astonishing number of crows roosting in the trees.
The trees(some kind of maple and totally leaf free this time of year) looked as if they had suddenly sprouted a full covering of large black foliage. We finally have snow on the groud so the scene was basically black and white and very dark as some of the lights in the park are out.
I went home , got the only camera I had loaded, my tripod and cable release and went back. Thankfully the crows hadn't been spooked and were still covering the trees.
I crept as close as I could and set up to shoot. I took two photos and was getting ready to shoot another one when one of our city policemen walked across the park from the station and shined his light at me and startled the crows.
It looked and sounded like a scene from "The Birds".
I got the joy of explaining to this guy "what the hell are you doing?"
He knew I couldn't really be taking pictures. because:
1 "that's not a camera"(I was using my Seagull TLR)
2 he didn't see any flash "it's too dark, you can't get a picture now( it was about 1am I think)"
3--this one I like the best--"There's nothing to see" From a person that has (I hope) been trained to be observant
So for the "priveledge" of being in a public park I got to stand around freezing my butt off while I tried to teach a very basic lesson in night photography, dig under three layers of coat etc to find my wallet for my ID, and be threatened with confiscation of my camera as I waited for the policeman to run my ID.
I am VERY glad my Kiev 60 wasn't loaded cuz I woul have grabbed it and my 500mm mirror lens( to isolate one tree full of birds). That particular setup would've looked waay more threatening
The whole thing bugs me on several different levels:
A- I cook for this guy and his family 2 or 3 times a month and have done so for two and a half years now.
B- This was not the first(or 50th)time I've been shooting in this park late at night or early in the am
C-I bracketed the exposures around the f22 aperture so I got one at 15 secs and one at 30 secs but I did not get the other two I wanted(5 and 45 secs).
Oh well, I'm home now, the camera is safe and sound and since I had to go home to get the camera I also left my back pack with my knives in it at home- thank goodness.
Sorry, just had to vent about this to some one who would "get it"(plus by putting it here I can't see all your eyes glaze over as you try to think of ANY thing else you could be doing except listening to me yak about photography again)
good night all, Rob
The local college kids returned to school starting last Thursday and they still have money to spend on non-essentials like lunch or dinner away from the campus so I have been cooking for just about twice as many customers as usual. Ordinarily I like this BUT this year 1/3 of my cooks is out with the flu(there are only three of us) so I and the other healthy cook have been covering six 14-16 hour shiftsand feeding 200 people or so.
The guy that's out is really sick so I'm not upset with him just a bit worn out by now.
So, I haven't had time or energy to take any pictures:bang:
This morning on the way home I walked by the court house park(as I do most nights) and noticed the astonishing number of crows roosting in the trees.
The trees(some kind of maple and totally leaf free this time of year) looked as if they had suddenly sprouted a full covering of large black foliage. We finally have snow on the groud so the scene was basically black and white and very dark as some of the lights in the park are out.
I went home , got the only camera I had loaded, my tripod and cable release and went back. Thankfully the crows hadn't been spooked and were still covering the trees.
I crept as close as I could and set up to shoot. I took two photos and was getting ready to shoot another one when one of our city policemen walked across the park from the station and shined his light at me and startled the crows.
It looked and sounded like a scene from "The Birds".
I got the joy of explaining to this guy "what the hell are you doing?"
He knew I couldn't really be taking pictures. because:
1 "that's not a camera"(I was using my Seagull TLR)
2 he didn't see any flash "it's too dark, you can't get a picture now( it was about 1am I think)"
3--this one I like the best--"There's nothing to see" From a person that has (I hope) been trained to be observant
So for the "priveledge" of being in a public park I got to stand around freezing my butt off while I tried to teach a very basic lesson in night photography, dig under three layers of coat etc to find my wallet for my ID, and be threatened with confiscation of my camera as I waited for the policeman to run my ID.
I am VERY glad my Kiev 60 wasn't loaded cuz I woul have grabbed it and my 500mm mirror lens( to isolate one tree full of birds). That particular setup would've looked waay more threatening
The whole thing bugs me on several different levels:
A- I cook for this guy and his family 2 or 3 times a month and have done so for two and a half years now.
B- This was not the first(or 50th)time I've been shooting in this park late at night or early in the am
C-I bracketed the exposures around the f22 aperture so I got one at 15 secs and one at 30 secs but I did not get the other two I wanted(5 and 45 secs).
Oh well, I'm home now, the camera is safe and sound and since I had to go home to get the camera I also left my back pack with my knives in it at home- thank goodness.
Sorry, just had to vent about this to some one who would "get it"(plus by putting it here I can't see all your eyes glaze over as you try to think of ANY thing else you could be doing except listening to me yak about photography again)
good night all, Rob
dmeledon
Member
I hear you, I've had late night shoots with the Graflex interrupted by the police a number of times, usually shooting radio towers. Thankfully however, they havent needed a whole lot of convincing that I wasn't up to no good, just responding to somebody calling me in as "suspicous."
Azinko
Established
There are some important issues here,...
Next time this cop comes into your restaurant he will be on YOUR ground!.....you could be a bit cool with him and remind him of the incident and that you are reputable and run a good enough eating place for him to come to! Alternatively you could politely decline his custom,....it sounds as if you are doing quite well already and don't really need this fools business. Then again, when he next comes in you could have a nice big print ready to show him and have a good laugh with him about how he treated you! Of course, next time he comes in you could simply piss in his soup!......should at least make you feel better!
Here in the Uk we have been used to living in a sensible country but this is changing! Recently while walking along a main street in a medium sized town carrying a camera in my left hand I was suddenly confronted with a security man (private firm) who took great delight in telling me very loudly and none too respectfully that "Photography is banned here" He got very confused about his business when I asked where the signs were proclaiming an Act Of Parliament preventing people from lawfully using cameras in a public place .
Next time this cop comes into your restaurant he will be on YOUR ground!.....you could be a bit cool with him and remind him of the incident and that you are reputable and run a good enough eating place for him to come to! Alternatively you could politely decline his custom,....it sounds as if you are doing quite well already and don't really need this fools business. Then again, when he next comes in you could have a nice big print ready to show him and have a good laugh with him about how he treated you! Of course, next time he comes in you could simply piss in his soup!......should at least make you feel better!
Here in the Uk we have been used to living in a sensible country but this is changing! Recently while walking along a main street in a medium sized town carrying a camera in my left hand I was suddenly confronted with a security man (private firm) who took great delight in telling me very loudly and none too respectfully that "Photography is banned here" He got very confused about his business when I asked where the signs were proclaiming an Act Of Parliament preventing people from lawfully using cameras in a public place .
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Pherdinand
the snow must go on
What an a$$hole. Some of these guys try really hard to prove that policemen jokes are half-true (or more).
peter_n
Veteran
Good to vent, Rob! I liked the story but I also liked the creative "menu" of responses thought up by Bob for the next time this guy brings his family into your place to eat!
I liked the story but I also liked the creative "menu" of responses thought up by Bob for the next time this guy brings his family into your place to eat! 
doubs43
Well-known
I think it would be much more effective to say absolutely NOTHING! Simply deliver his next meal with a print of one of the pictures you took that night. I doubt that he'll need an explaination.
Walker
Walker
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Sorry... but I respectfully must disagree with the Bob's suggestion. Nothing personal, Bob, but their minds don't work like yours and mine.
I grew up in a country (Guatemala) where military men and police can do as they please, and in their minds, they are the powers that be. I've learned never to confront them there, here or anywhere. Wanna know what happened in NY to my wife and I? I'll tell you later.
Now, if a policeman comes to inquire what is it I'm doing when it's very obvious that I'm taking a photograph of a bunch of trees with birds in them... I'd be courteous and as nice as possible... But then, I'd also take note of his name and/or badge number, and then call the police and complain about this abuse of authority.
Of course... in their minds you're a dangerous man, bent on blowing up all the makings of Western civilization, and therefore you're going to go publically, with a notorious camera, a tripod, in the middle of the night, and take photographs in the most conspicuous manner for your fiendish purposes! Hah!!
Sometimes, the logic of these officers just baffles me. If I were really on a secret mission would I call so much attention to myself?
rbiemer, I think you handled the situation correctly. And that includes coming here to vent! That last part is the healthiest one!
Sorry about your trouble...
And to think there are still those who talk about "liberty" and "freedom"... especially today!
I grew up in a country (Guatemala) where military men and police can do as they please, and in their minds, they are the powers that be. I've learned never to confront them there, here or anywhere. Wanna know what happened in NY to my wife and I? I'll tell you later.
Now, if a policeman comes to inquire what is it I'm doing when it's very obvious that I'm taking a photograph of a bunch of trees with birds in them... I'd be courteous and as nice as possible... But then, I'd also take note of his name and/or badge number, and then call the police and complain about this abuse of authority.
Of course... in their minds you're a dangerous man, bent on blowing up all the makings of Western civilization, and therefore you're going to go publically, with a notorious camera, a tripod, in the middle of the night, and take photographs in the most conspicuous manner for your fiendish purposes! Hah!!
Sometimes, the logic of these officers just baffles me. If I were really on a secret mission would I call so much attention to myself?
rbiemer, I think you handled the situation correctly. And that includes coming here to vent! That last part is the healthiest one!
Sorry about your trouble...
And to think there are still those who talk about "liberty" and "freedom"... especially today!
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digitalox
RF Extraordinaire
Never really does any good to challenge an officer, whether you're right or wrong. Even if you are right in the situation, no one will help you in the end, the other police will always side with themselves. Unless maybe you go to court and sue. But who can afford that money or time?
Solares - What happened to you and your wife in NY?
Solares - What happened to you and your wife in NY?
R
Roman
Guest
Just spit into his soup the next time he shows up - he deserves it!
Roman
Roman
taffer
void
Well I've also had a couple of these issues lately. First one was a bar owner who came out and asked me why I was taking pics of the chairs they had in the outside (I was simply looking for compositions, in fact the scene was not that nice), 'I'm a photography student', I said, and was sort of true.
Second one was on a shopping mall some weeks ago, it was on Xmas time and some performers were playing at the jewelry section, after a couple shots (I was so dumb to bring the camera to my eye and not simply guess focus) a security guard popped out of nowhere and told me it was not allowed to take pics there, time to put your good boy face and find some Columbo-like excuse 'Oh sorry I didn't know, but they are for my wife you know? She loves these things but is at home with the flu, terrible, and ... cough cough ! Oh I think she passed it to me... cough !'
OTH, I almost always end liking these 'semi-confrontation' pics.
Second one was on a shopping mall some weeks ago, it was on Xmas time and some performers were playing at the jewelry section, after a couple shots (I was so dumb to bring the camera to my eye and not simply guess focus) a security guard popped out of nowhere and told me it was not allowed to take pics there, time to put your good boy face and find some Columbo-like excuse 'Oh sorry I didn't know, but they are for my wife you know? She loves these things but is at home with the flu, terrible, and ... cough cough ! Oh I think she passed it to me... cough !'
OTH, I almost always end liking these 'semi-confrontation' pics.
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CleverName
Well-known
doubs43 said:I think it would be much more effective to say absolutely NOTHING! Simply deliver his next meal with a print of one of the pictures you took that night. I doubt that he'll need an explaination.
Walker
I think this is an excellent suggestion. That officer may be on patrol the next time you're shooting in the park. It's always a good idea to have a friendly police officer around when you're alone in a park in the middle of the night.
Here's my "Shooting at Night" story. I was walking around downtown about 3 am when I noticed a flowerbed with little spotlights and sprinkers. The water was a fine mist over the flowers and the light was perfectly diffused. It looked really cool. I stepped over a little two foot wall onto a patio and set up the shot. Just as I was about to press the shutter, a security guard said, "hey, what are you doing here!" Scared the bejeezus out of me. I told him I was taking pictures of the flowers and he said in an inquisitive and non-authoritative voice, "why are you taking pictures here?" (the guard looked to be about 19 or 20). I told him I thought the flowers looked cool. There was an akward pause as I looked at him and he looked at the flowers. Eventually he said, "Huh" in an agreeable sort of way. I turned to set up the shot again and as I was getting ready, the sprinklers stopped. I said, "crap". The security guard actually apologized and told me the sprinklers wouldn't come back on until the next day. He then told me that I wasn't suppose to be there, I stepped onto private property when I stepped over the little wall. I apologized and stepped back over the wall. He said, "no problem, have a nice night."
I still haven't made it back down there at 3am to try to get that shot.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Azinko said:
Must admit... this is the part of Bob's message I alluded to. The bit about the print is just the stuff of genius, but then, no offense but... would the policeman care about it?
Nah...
What happened to us in NY, digitalox? Here it is:
In NY, two years ago, my wife and I wanted to go to the Times Square New Year's Eve Ball Dropping thing. We emerged from one of the theaters from, I believe, Broadway, and wanted to get as close to Times Square as possible. Our hotel, which was one of the two Sheraton right in midtown, kinda had claimed the sidewalk for its guests. However, we didn't want to stand in there for three hours so we headed to the nearest deli, for dinner.
Well... first, the policemen on one sidewalk didn't want to let us go. A matter of safety. If you want to go that direction, you have to go on the other side of the street. When we told him where we were going (a deli on that side of the street), he quickly let us go through. Now, when we were done, left the deli, went down the sidewalk to wait for the magic hour... and the said officer sent us to the other side of the street.
Fine, we said, and proceeded to cross the street in the next corner. And then, out of nowhere, a very irate policeman comes to us barking warnings about our being on that side of the street when we should be on the other! My wife nearly lost it. I just remembered my experiences and... quoted the other agent.
That seemed to do it. "He's a bit slow, that guy," this officer said, and then let us go to the hotel, in front of which we saw what we could.
There was another incident later, in which policemen were telling people to exit the cordoned areas by an exit that was two blocks down. For us that meant to walk two blocks one way to get off the cordoned/restricted area, and then walk back those blocks to get into our hotel. My wife, again, was infuriated (she still gets pretty upset when she remembers it) because it was utter nonsense. Since I didn't have any officer to blame, I chose to act "polite" and ask the agent where the exit was and that was it. We walked away unscathed.
Now... the idea of offering the man a print, now that I think about it, might do some good. Can you still do it, rbiemer?
N
Nick R.
Guest
To embarass a guy in front of his family by refusing him service is too much. He made a mistake; you have to rise above it. Presenting him with a print from that night is a good idea. He may not care or even remember but he might give the next photog he encounters a little more slack because of it.
T
tedwhite
Guest
I was in a mall in Sierra Vista, Arizona, which is in the southeast corner of the state, surely a hot spot for terrorist activity. I was caught by the light emanating from the skylights, and raised up my Yashica Electro 35 GSN, got a shot, and was immediately cordoned off by three security guards. "Sorry, sir, but it is forbidden to take any photographs inside the mall - for security reasons." I acquiesed and put the camera away. Oddly, they never confiscated the camera.
Yes, Arizona, Osama's next target.
Yes, Arizona, Osama's next target.
back alley
IMAGES
shooting in malls has long been a no-no.
even before the big O.
joe
even before the big O.
joe
taffer
void
What turns me mad about that is that security guards tend to intentonally ignore the zillion of phone cameras that beep around
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Taffer, they do use their own cell phones.
Once, in a shopping mall in the late evening (it's always open to go through but the shops were closed) i've seen a cool shopcase, but it needed my person inside the frame to make it really as i wanted. So i took out my little tabletop tripod and the GSN, and lied down on my belly to "compose" the shot. There was noone around.
While i was there setting the camera in a weird pose, two security folks showed up.
-Sir what are you doing down there???- they had a very strange look.
-Oh uh, i'm just composing a shot, i said, looking up to them.
-It is forbidden to take photos here.
-Why? It's a public place isn't it?
-Yes, out on the street it is but not in here. Security reasons.
-But sir, -i was feeling bored and they were not looking very angry/serious- on the door there are signs what we are not allowed, and there is no camera.
-True, but still it is forbidden.
-OK, then i will not take *more* pictures. But it's too late, i already took some! (i was lying)
-Oh, that's fine, sir, but don't do it the next time, allright?
)
Once, in a shopping mall in the late evening (it's always open to go through but the shops were closed) i've seen a cool shopcase, but it needed my person inside the frame to make it really as i wanted. So i took out my little tabletop tripod and the GSN, and lied down on my belly to "compose" the shot. There was noone around.
While i was there setting the camera in a weird pose, two security folks showed up.
-Sir what are you doing down there???- they had a very strange look.
-Oh uh, i'm just composing a shot, i said, looking up to them.
-It is forbidden to take photos here.
-Why? It's a public place isn't it?
-Yes, out on the street it is but not in here. Security reasons.
-But sir, -i was feeling bored and they were not looking very angry/serious- on the door there are signs what we are not allowed, and there is no camera.
-True, but still it is forbidden.
-OK, then i will not take *more* pictures. But it's too late, i already took some! (i was lying)
-Oh, that's fine, sir, but don't do it the next time, allright?
)
ddutchison
Well-known
I carry little 5X7 photo albums in my camera bag, with my best examples of various kinds of photography (night shots - always at night, people shots - almost always, architectural shots - for semi-public places) for those situations where I feel like giving an explanation when I'm asked what I'm doing - which is always if it's a cop. Those albums have turned a few unpleasant situations into quite qood ones.
Still, there are always some people who can't fathom why anyone would take a picture just for the sake of doing so. For them I say it's what I do instead of watching television - that always seems to get through. Being a "photography student" is also a good one, though not if it's a cop asking. They get lied to all the time, and most are pretty good at detecting it when it happens.
Still, there are always some people who can't fathom why anyone would take a picture just for the sake of doing so. For them I say it's what I do instead of watching television - that always seems to get through. Being a "photography student" is also a good one, though not if it's a cop asking. They get lied to all the time, and most are pretty good at detecting it when it happens.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
The rule of thumb here is the following: in the street, everything is fair game. Inside any structure, it's a no-no. Hence, don't take photos in malls, museums, restaurants or any other place where there's a roof over your head, unless there is a sign that says "Photography Allowed."
Now... there's a certain latitude when the sign reads "No Flash Photography." To me, it means that as long as I don't use a flash, it's OK to use the camera. In fact, I usually ask for confirmation... You never know what`s in the security people's minds.
I should carry some prints from now on, though. That's a good advice, David!
Now... there's a certain latitude when the sign reads "No Flash Photography." To me, it means that as long as I don't use a flash, it's OK to use the camera. In fact, I usually ask for confirmation... You never know what`s in the security people's minds.
I should carry some prints from now on, though. That's a good advice, David!
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rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Wow! Thanks for all the support folks!
A couple of clarifications:
The officer wasn't rude just completely uncomprehending.
He startled me as well as the birds.
(OK, he scared the sh#t out of me I was looking through the viewfinder)
I was short on sleep and patience in general so I felt more abused than I ordinarily would.
My responses--
Bob(nice to "see" you again btw) I am not the owner of where I work but I can make the call to ban someone IF THEY ARE ACTING STUPID ON THE PREMISES other wise I'm happy to take everybody's money.
I have never intentionally put anything on some one's plate that wasn't food and I will never do so. Pissing in the soup is just wrong. I have a certain amount of ego and it wont let me do anything other than my best regardless of how I feel about the customer.
I learned along time ago that to argue with a cop is pointless at best and serious trouble at worst. They have a presumption of their being right and they are armed. Ultimately they are going to do what they want and all I can do is to deal with it after the fact.
20 years ago(in a different town) I threw my brother his 21 birthday party at my house. Lots of people and we did get a bit loud. Everybody was 21 or over. One of my neighbors called the police to complain about the noise--after she sent her husband over to knock on my door and I invited him in and he stayed--the police knocked on the door, I answered, they asked "can we come in?" I responded "No. we will be quiet but you cannot come in my house" They came in any way and were very dissapointed that all they could do was to write a noise complaint ticket.
I could have made a big stink about unlawful entry etc but I decided that I had to live in that town and I did not need to be an adversary to the cops there.
If the pictures come out OK I might gove him one.
I have bitched about this to another officer that comes into my work(he stops in about midnight after his shift and has a couple of beers before he goes home) and he told me "Aah, that guy's a jerk anyway. Sorry. He probably thought you were one of the college kids." My home town is small(20,000 people) and the college is a major part of our economy since the little bit of industry bailed in the 80's so I cringe a bit when I hear anyone bashing the "college kids". They are young and they do raise hell but the $ they bring to this town are vital! And 2/3 of them are women so the scenery is wonderful . Especially in the warmer parts of the year!
I grew up in this town so I do kind of assume everybody knows me--obviously not true:bang:
Oh, and the third cook was back to work today so I'm back to a regular week!!! Two days off then only 45 hrs instead of the 67 I worked last week
Rob
A couple of clarifications:
The officer wasn't rude just completely uncomprehending.
He startled me as well as the birds.
(OK, he scared the sh#t out of me I was looking through the viewfinder)
I was short on sleep and patience in general so I felt more abused than I ordinarily would.
My responses--
Bob(nice to "see" you again btw) I am not the owner of where I work but I can make the call to ban someone IF THEY ARE ACTING STUPID ON THE PREMISES other wise I'm happy to take everybody's money.
I have never intentionally put anything on some one's plate that wasn't food and I will never do so. Pissing in the soup is just wrong. I have a certain amount of ego and it wont let me do anything other than my best regardless of how I feel about the customer.
I learned along time ago that to argue with a cop is pointless at best and serious trouble at worst. They have a presumption of their being right and they are armed. Ultimately they are going to do what they want and all I can do is to deal with it after the fact.
20 years ago(in a different town) I threw my brother his 21 birthday party at my house. Lots of people and we did get a bit loud. Everybody was 21 or over. One of my neighbors called the police to complain about the noise--after she sent her husband over to knock on my door and I invited him in and he stayed--the police knocked on the door, I answered, they asked "can we come in?" I responded "No. we will be quiet but you cannot come in my house" They came in any way and were very dissapointed that all they could do was to write a noise complaint ticket.
I could have made a big stink about unlawful entry etc but I decided that I had to live in that town and I did not need to be an adversary to the cops there.
If the pictures come out OK I might gove him one.
I have bitched about this to another officer that comes into my work(he stops in about midnight after his shift and has a couple of beers before he goes home) and he told me "Aah, that guy's a jerk anyway. Sorry. He probably thought you were one of the college kids." My home town is small(20,000 people) and the college is a major part of our economy since the little bit of industry bailed in the 80's so I cringe a bit when I hear anyone bashing the "college kids". They are young and they do raise hell but the $ they bring to this town are vital! And 2/3 of them are women so the scenery is wonderful . Especially in the warmer parts of the year!
I grew up in this town so I do kind of assume everybody knows me--obviously not true:bang:
Oh, and the third cook was back to work today so I'm back to a regular week!!! Two days off then only 45 hrs instead of the 67 I worked last week
Rob