Should i buy the 111F RED dial or Black,which is best

[splaaash]

Ive always wanted a Leica 111f now ive been offered both,red dial & a black dial,which is the best??

OR which has the best build??Was the old solid system better than the ultra modern red dial ---111G?im told---design

Did Leica transfer production to China with the modernization?🙁

Both are in the same good condition everything working and checked.

Which should i choose????

POSTED IN THE WRONG PLACE, Sorry

 

[Roger Hicks]

After 50+ years, I'd worry more about condition than RD/BD. If they're mechanically identical, buy the prettier or the one with the longer guarantee.

IIIg (1958) is hardly "ultra modern".

CHINA???

Cheers,

R.

 

[kbg32]

Yes, Leitz had a secretive plant in China.....😛

 

[Dez]

As far as I know, the only difference between the red and black dial versions was the medium shutter speeds: 60, 40, 30 for the black dial, 75, 50, 25 for the red dial. I really don't know why they bothered with the change. Buy your camera based on the condition of the particular ones you are able to examine.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[splaaash]

OK i bought the red dial.Both are in 100% good working condition and garenteed for six months by a Leica agent (shop)

The Black dial looked in new condition and the Red dial used.

I always wanted the red dial,but i had no base for wanting the red over black--i just chose to like the red

Now bought and to late to change i wondered,perhaps a bit late,if the internal workings were stronger more solid in the old 111F black dial based on the reliable 111C rater than the red dial based on the modern 111G which was perhaps made by robots and cheep labor?

When i look at my sony NEX 5n or 6 both are excellent cameras but im not sure they will be working in 20 years time,

I havnt seen many in fact almost no 3Gs for sale or in use perhaps its construction was over simplified outsourced ??TO Save costs?

I hope the red dial got good components

 

[snapper78]

I've owned a IIIG (converted from IG) since 1958 and it's still going strong. I see no evidence of simplified construction or outsourcing. As far as I know, Leitz never outsourced any production and certainly never to China. They did collaborate with Minolta for a time but that was much later. Some cameras were assembled at a Leitz plant in France (Sarre) for a time and they had a factory in Midland, Canada at one time.

This may be of interest:
http://www.overgaard.dk/leica_history.html

 

[pete hogan]

splaaash, there wasn't much in the way of compromise in '50s Leica.

 

[goamules]

...

Now bought and to late to change i wondered,perhaps a bit late,if the internal workings were stronger more solid in the old 111F black dial based on the reliable 111C rater than the red dial based on the modern 111G which was perhaps made by robots and cheep labor?
...
I havnt seen many in fact almost no 3Gs for sale or in use perhaps its construction was over simplified outsourced ??TO Save costs?

I hope the red dial got good components

Why in the world are you making up all these things to worry about? Leicas have never had a bit of "...Cheap labor, simplified construction....outsourcing..." Just use the camera and quit worrying about it, once they are adjusted most mechanical cameras will work a decade or two without any trouble.

 

[Robert Lai]

Industrial Robots and cheap labor in the 1950s

Industrial Robots and cheap labor in the 1950s

Robot was the name of a German camera with a spring wound motor drive. CPU controlled robots of today only started in industrial production in the past couple of decades. Even current production Leica cameras involve a lot of hand finishing. I don't know why you make up these fantasy worries.

As for cheap labor, immediately after the war Germany was wrecked, and people were looking for work. So, the labor rates may have been "cheap" by German standards at the time. With time, I'm sure German labor rates increased to be comparable of any Western industrial nation. Some of the IIIF and IIIG were also made in Midland, Canada. I own one of these Midland made IIIF - RD. Canadian labor costs were cheaper than Germany at the time? - not sure about that. My understanding was the Leica was worried about an Eastern block invasion, so they started the plant in Canada as insurance just in case. It was the cold war after all. Zeiss had all of their plant and a lot of their people confiscated by the Russians, and Leitz didn't want that to happen to them.

Also, immediately after WWII, Japan was the cheap labor capital. Look at how badly those Canons and Nikons of the time were put together. Worthless junk that could never compete with German photographic supremacy 😉.

 

[xayraa33]

Any Leica IIIf and all the way to the original M4 that was assembled in the woodsy goodness of Midland Ontario is sought after by collectors of such things.

 

[ray*j*gun]

Perhaps we are having our legs pulled?

 

[Dez]

Perhaps we are having our legs pulled?

I suspect you have that right, Ray.

And if Rob had his tongue stuffed any further into his cheek he would do himself a serious injury. I am disappointed not to have seen any howls of outrage from Nikon and Canon fans (as Rob is himself!)

Cheers,
Dez

 

[Sumolux]

Now bought and to late to change i wondered,perhaps a bit late,if the internal workings were stronger more solid in the old 111F black dial based on the reliable 111C rater than the red dial based on the modern 111G which was perhaps made by robots and cheep labor?

The red dial IIIf has a slightly lighter shutter curtain assembly in comparison to the black dial versions. perhaps as part of the different shutter speeds.

Not that i am an expert; but the man who CLA'd my black dial is, and he spent years assembling IIIf's in Germany.

Either way, they are both fantastically well made.

Personally I find the discussions on forums about red vs. black dial IIIf's kind of amusing, as virtually no users are going to worry about using flash with these cameras 🙂

Cheers,
Sumolux