mikeyyah
Newbie
I want to get into Leica digital but too poor to buy an M9.
Any thoughts on the M8. I did some research and read that the shutter might be prone to failure. I'd rent one but can't find anyone who does. Anyways, What are your thoughts? Would the M8 be a good purchase these days? I'd like for it to last a looong time.
M8 owners please chime in.
O btw, What do you guys think of this one:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1274652/0?keyword=m8#12145674
Any thoughts on the M8. I did some research and read that the shutter might be prone to failure. I'd rent one but can't find anyone who does. Anyways, What are your thoughts? Would the M8 be a good purchase these days? I'd like for it to last a looong time.
M8 owners please chime in.
O btw, What do you guys think of this one:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1274652/0?keyword=m8#12145674
peterm1
Veteran
If you cant afford an M9 then an M8 is a reasonable substitute. I have had one for perhaps 2-3 years. I dont mind it. But to be honest I am not totally in love with it due to the compromises inherent in its design. This is also partly due to the fact that my eyes have deteriorated in recent years combined with the fact that the finder on the M8 is not as good as on my old M3 and M4P (making focusing harder). Other people handle this better than me. I have purchased a diopter adjustment lens which helps but its still a bit of a struggle.
People other than I can tell you about how to check if the camera is prone to shutter failure. However I understand that later serial numbers are more reliable and also I have read reports in other Bulletin Boards, of people who have bought M8s second hand, had the shutter fail and then had Leica replace it at no cost to them. These are recent reports and the general consensus was that Leica sticks by its products for as long as it is able. How long it will keep this up for is questionable though as suitable parts are always an issue with older cameras quite apart from the cost to Leica.
Would I buy one again? Probably not. Certainly not for what I paid for mine - but since then they have falling in price so you should be able to get one for much less.
I never the less think that for me, given my blurry vision it is preferable for me to buy either a Fuji x100s or alternatively in order to use my lenses, some other camera of a sort that would allow me to use my Leica glass. I have used my glass on a Sony NEX for example and it works fine with focus peaking and focus assist which make using manual focusing much much easier. But this lacks a certain something if you really wish to use a traditional camera. Perhaps one of the Fuji pofferings with interchanegable lenses. I am not serious about it right now so have not studied options.
For now I will continue to use my M8 and will even enjoy it to a point. but there is no doubt I struggle with focussing properly and this limits the subjects I use it with. Would it be an issue for you? That's your call.
People other than I can tell you about how to check if the camera is prone to shutter failure. However I understand that later serial numbers are more reliable and also I have read reports in other Bulletin Boards, of people who have bought M8s second hand, had the shutter fail and then had Leica replace it at no cost to them. These are recent reports and the general consensus was that Leica sticks by its products for as long as it is able. How long it will keep this up for is questionable though as suitable parts are always an issue with older cameras quite apart from the cost to Leica.
Would I buy one again? Probably not. Certainly not for what I paid for mine - but since then they have falling in price so you should be able to get one for much less.
I never the less think that for me, given my blurry vision it is preferable for me to buy either a Fuji x100s or alternatively in order to use my lenses, some other camera of a sort that would allow me to use my Leica glass. I have used my glass on a Sony NEX for example and it works fine with focus peaking and focus assist which make using manual focusing much much easier. But this lacks a certain something if you really wish to use a traditional camera. Perhaps one of the Fuji pofferings with interchanegable lenses. I am not serious about it right now so have not studied options.
For now I will continue to use my M8 and will even enjoy it to a point. but there is no doubt I struggle with focussing properly and this limits the subjects I use it with. Would it be an issue for you? That's your call.
mikeyyah
Newbie
Thanks for the reply, Peter.
I see that the going price is around 1800-2200 on Ebay.
My eyesight is deteriorating as well, so I guess I should take this into consideration.
I see that the going price is around 1800-2200 on Ebay.
My eyesight is deteriorating as well, so I guess I should take this into consideration.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
On Leica Rumors Joel Myerwitz made some comments on the new Leica cameras. I think you should review those videos. They might be helpful.
xyz3450
-
Isn't this the same M8 in the rangefinder adds here:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...t.php/product/42812/title/leica-m8-body/cat/3
I owned an M8. Liked it but sold it. Many like the look from the sensor. As did I. But there was a lot of messing around with it too. You know about the IV cut filters that you need to put on? Also, the shutter sound is quite loud. Its not the shutter being depressed, but the re-cocking. Makes a kind of whirring sound. Again, not an issue with some. I'd be inclined to hold and use one for a bit before buying. The other thing is that these cameras are addictive and Leica lenses are v. expensive.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...t.php/product/42812/title/leica-m8-body/cat/3
I owned an M8. Liked it but sold it. Many like the look from the sensor. As did I. But there was a lot of messing around with it too. You know about the IV cut filters that you need to put on? Also, the shutter sound is quite loud. Its not the shutter being depressed, but the re-cocking. Makes a kind of whirring sound. Again, not an issue with some. I'd be inclined to hold and use one for a bit before buying. The other thing is that these cameras are addictive and Leica lenses are v. expensive.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I'd wait for a used M9. Leica will continue putting out new cameras, so, I'd sit and wait. The M8 came with a lot of baggage, not to mention that it has a cropped sensor. Given that I waited to get a digital until Nikon offered the D700, I became very much a fan of FF, so, again, I intend to wait for a used M9. You will find them used and in very good shape in a few years.
x-ray
Veteran
Didn't Leica run out of LCD screens and sensors? No repair parts for these? I thought they were offering trade ins for the new 240 depending on the age of the failed camera. I personally wouldn't buy a recent camera I couldn't get repaired. I wouldn't put more than what I'm willing to lose if it fails c
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
Save your money.
The M8 was and is a dud.
Why?
Crop factor.
Need for UV filter.
a sensor that's as old as Canon 20d.
Either you'll have to program your lenses into it, or you'll need to code them.
Which means more money.
Either keep saving your money, or find an alternative.
The M8 was and is a dud.
Why?
Crop factor.
Need for UV filter.
a sensor that's as old as Canon 20d.
Either you'll have to program your lenses into it, or you'll need to code them.
Which means more money.
Either keep saving your money, or find an alternative.
raid
Dad Photographer
The sensors are the same for the M8 and the M9. One is larger.
I use both cameras side by side, but I have started to favor the M9 with a 35mm lens. Yes, the IR cut filter is a pain. I have only two such filters.
I use both cameras side by side, but I have started to favor the M9 with a 35mm lens. Yes, the IR cut filter is a pain. I have only two such filters.
Takkun
Ian M.
I was thinking about this, since I've seen a plethora show up around the 1600 mark lately. It's been on the brain for a while, but I suppose it would be prudent to wait--I decided that, since my primary use for digital is low-light flexibility (and I use wider glass) the M9 would suit me better. It's out of range for me now, but it's only going to go down.
The great thing about the newer digital cameras is that the may be technically obsolete, but they still will make great photos.
The great thing about the newer digital cameras is that the may be technically obsolete, but they still will make great photos.
jippiejee
Well-known
I consider the M8 a great camera for base-iso shooting. I've been getting great color files from it under daylight circumstances. So for street and travel photography, I see no reason to back out of a good deal. Its buffering is a bit slow, and there's the 1.3 crop factor. But then, there's also a great budget 28mm elmarit asph to compensate for it.
If you can afford an M9, that'll give you an extra stop and the comfort of shooting full-frame. But if that's stretching your budget, you'll still be very happy with the M8 too as long as you're not chasing low-light scenes. Although those can still be quite ok in black and white. Leica still services the M8 too, it's just that they unfortunately ran out of lcd displays as replacement parts.
I find the M8 dng files to be very rich and the camera far from obsolete... M8:
If you can afford an M9, that'll give you an extra stop and the comfort of shooting full-frame. But if that's stretching your budget, you'll still be very happy with the M8 too as long as you're not chasing low-light scenes. Although those can still be quite ok in black and white. Leica still services the M8 too, it's just that they unfortunately ran out of lcd displays as replacement parts.
I find the M8 dng files to be very rich and the camera far from obsolete... M8:
JianL
Established
The M8 is full of compromises, and is one of the most unreliable cameras I've ever owned, but I still enjoy shooting with it and the images (when you nail focus and exposure) are stunning.
I wouldn't worry so much about the shutter failing because this appears to happen randomly, and there's no real way to check for it. Instead, look for hot pixels on the sensor and a misaligned rangefinder. These you can check and the price should be adjusted accordingly if you encounter them.
If you don't need to have the rangefinder experience, consider a Ricoh GXR M Mount. The images from this are probably as good, if not better, than the M8 with better high ISO performance and better reliability in a smaller and lighter package at a third of the cost of an M8.
I wouldn't worry so much about the shutter failing because this appears to happen randomly, and there's no real way to check for it. Instead, look for hot pixels on the sensor and a misaligned rangefinder. These you can check and the price should be adjusted accordingly if you encounter them.
If you don't need to have the rangefinder experience, consider a Ricoh GXR M Mount. The images from this are probably as good, if not better, than the M8 with better high ISO performance and better reliability in a smaller and lighter package at a third of the cost of an M8.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
The M8 is a solid camera. The sensor renders beautifully. Here are few example images I've taken with mine. The OOC b&w .jpgs are nearly the equal of the Monochrom... amazingly so.
The reason for buying Leica, ANY Leica, is the coupled coincident rangefinder/brightline viewfinder. If you don't care how you frame your images there are any number of cameras that are less expensive and will do a nice job for you.
You also don't need to spend a large fortune to buy lenses... those from Voigtlander, for example, are excellent quality and can be had for a fraction the cost of Leica lenses. I really enjoy the Voigtlander 28 f/2, 35 f/1.2, and 75 f/1.8 as a traveling kit with the M8... which gives the classic 35mm 35-50-90 kit field of view with the M8 sensor.
The skills required for using a rangefinder camera are very different from those required for using a DSLR. You'll shoot entirely primes and that will cause you to have to move to frame, and pre-select which lens will work best. The thought process is very different. A coincident rangefinder is probably the easiest manual focusing method with the the images "popping" into focus in the square. They're the easiest to use with failing eyesight. I switched back to the rangefinder as I find it easier to use as I age.
The M8 requires the use of UV/IR cut filters on your lenses for color work. I also have an M9P and I've found that leaving the UV/IR cut filters on really gives incredible colors with the M9P. The filters are not inexpensive, but they're worth their weight in gold.
So, the M8 may no longer be infinitely repairable, but it's a solid camera and Leica still stands behind them. They'll continue to be out there making images for a very long time.
The reason for buying Leica, ANY Leica, is the coupled coincident rangefinder/brightline viewfinder. If you don't care how you frame your images there are any number of cameras that are less expensive and will do a nice job for you.
You also don't need to spend a large fortune to buy lenses... those from Voigtlander, for example, are excellent quality and can be had for a fraction the cost of Leica lenses. I really enjoy the Voigtlander 28 f/2, 35 f/1.2, and 75 f/1.8 as a traveling kit with the M8... which gives the classic 35mm 35-50-90 kit field of view with the M8 sensor.
The skills required for using a rangefinder camera are very different from those required for using a DSLR. You'll shoot entirely primes and that will cause you to have to move to frame, and pre-select which lens will work best. The thought process is very different. A coincident rangefinder is probably the easiest manual focusing method with the the images "popping" into focus in the square. They're the easiest to use with failing eyesight. I switched back to the rangefinder as I find it easier to use as I age.
The M8 requires the use of UV/IR cut filters on your lenses for color work. I also have an M9P and I've found that leaving the UV/IR cut filters on really gives incredible colors with the M9P. The filters are not inexpensive, but they're worth their weight in gold.
So, the M8 may no longer be infinitely repairable, but it's a solid camera and Leica still stands behind them. They'll continue to be out there making images for a very long time.
Gary Sandhu
Well-known
Yes, you should buy an M8. But not if you want a 135 equivalent FOV of wider than 35.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I have the M8.2 rather than the plain M8. I bought it over the M8 partly because its frameline set is sized for a 2 meter distance, while the M8's framelines are sized for the minimum distance of .7M; partly because the M8.2 has the rugged sapphire glass finder screen; and partly because it is supposed to have a better shutter.
I needed the M8.2 frameline size because it is more accurate at my usual shooting distances: usually six feet to infinity.
As to crop factor: to me, a factor of 1.5 like you get on, say, a Nikon D300 is too much. But with the M8/M8.2 factor of just 1.33, each lens is not so far away from normal. A 35mm makes a great 50, with the added bonus of being a tad wider at 47mm equivalent. The 28mm is especially nice. At a 37mm equivalent, it does the job of the 35mm and makes a good general purpose lens. The 24mm is like a "wide 35" at a 32mm equivalent. It often even fills in for a true 28mm. As I wear glasses, I can't see the camera's 24mm framelines, so I use an accessory finder. And a 21mm makes a perfect 28.
Those who are more critical than I say that the M8 is too noisy above ISO 640. I find that I am happy with my results up to 1250. Once in a while I get a good shot at 2500; but I would say 1250 is the tipping point (for me).
If you think an M8 will make you happy, and if your needs are like mine, I don't think you would be wrong to buy it.
I needed the M8.2 frameline size because it is more accurate at my usual shooting distances: usually six feet to infinity.
As to crop factor: to me, a factor of 1.5 like you get on, say, a Nikon D300 is too much. But with the M8/M8.2 factor of just 1.33, each lens is not so far away from normal. A 35mm makes a great 50, with the added bonus of being a tad wider at 47mm equivalent. The 28mm is especially nice. At a 37mm equivalent, it does the job of the 35mm and makes a good general purpose lens. The 24mm is like a "wide 35" at a 32mm equivalent. It often even fills in for a true 28mm. As I wear glasses, I can't see the camera's 24mm framelines, so I use an accessory finder. And a 21mm makes a perfect 28.
Those who are more critical than I say that the M8 is too noisy above ISO 640. I find that I am happy with my results up to 1250. Once in a while I get a good shot at 2500; but I would say 1250 is the tipping point (for me).
If you think an M8 will make you happy, and if your needs are like mine, I don't think you would be wrong to buy it.
Lss
Well-known
I like using the M8 and would still buy one if the M9 remains too expensive. The significant advantage of the M9 is the full frame sensor, which just works better with the lens selection available both new and used.
The shutter is not particularly unreliable or prone to failure.
The shutter is not particularly unreliable or prone to failure.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Mine is 7 years old, now takes pictures every bit as well as it did from new.
LEDs have partially (largely) failed so I have no idea what they read. Just recently I changed SD cards to one I had used previously only in the camera, all my other digital is compact flash,that shows as SD card full ( a known error) formatting makes no difference either in camera or with Sandisk disc formatter, the original card still works fine formats and plays nicely, I'm off to waste money on a brand new card to see.
Mine was upgraded and re-guaranteed BTW.
Am I angry, no, disappointed in the quality? Yes. I know Leica can fix it but probably at half the cost of a Sony A7. I have had 7 years out of it and technology has moved on , as it does. My D2H, bought for £300 for sports work is flawless, yes £300.
My opinion?
They are now overpriced IMHO and can be expected to fail unexpectedly. You would need a solid 12 month guarantee and be prepared to write it off when out of that guarantee, most repairs would be out of all manner and reason.
Would I buy another Leica digital, sorry no. For the money, good as they are, I have no faith in their build quality, their longer term reliability, Leica's ability to repair (at a cost) with uncertain parts availability, just the uncertainty that every time it is critical that it will not perform as expected. Pulling batteries out to reset, batteries dropping from two bars to zero in two shots, no stop, enough. Are they the best option for Leica glass?, without a doubt especially the wides, for digital. I use all the glass on film very happily.
jamin-b
Well-known
love my M8
love my M8
I bought my M8 used in great condition about 2 and a half years ago and am still frequently bowled over by image quality, with modern Zeiss ZM, vintage Leica (the Summitar is a very special lens) and CV wide angles. yes there are all the color issues, but as a b/w camera it functions as a poor man's monochrom, since the lack of filter provides greater sharpness. I have never had any issues with it whatsoever. If I lost it I would not hesitate to replace it. Get it, pick up an extra battery or two and have some fun!
love my M8
I bought my M8 used in great condition about 2 and a half years ago and am still frequently bowled over by image quality, with modern Zeiss ZM, vintage Leica (the Summitar is a very special lens) and CV wide angles. yes there are all the color issues, but as a b/w camera it functions as a poor man's monochrom, since the lack of filter provides greater sharpness. I have never had any issues with it whatsoever. If I lost it I would not hesitate to replace it. Get it, pick up an extra battery or two and have some fun!
Lss
Well-known
Anything can fail unexpectedly, and given enough time will. I have had several Canon cameras fail, including their pro 1-series. My M8 keeps on going.
GoneSavage
not actually
Ever consider getting an A7?