Should I swap my M4-P and Bessa R3A for an M6?

[Out to Lunch]

There is nothing that a M6 can do that a M4/P can't do better.

Errr, not. It doesn't have a light meter. Sell the lot and buy the M6.

 

[teddy]

My M4P has better, more accurate framelines than my M6 (and later) Leicas. The M6 meter, however, does give consistently good exposures. Unless the M6 meter means that much to you, you may be disappointed in an M6.

That's the deal breaker for me. And may I be more precise in saying that the vertical rangefinder alignment on the Leica's are accurate compared to the Bessa's - the vertical alignment patch on the Bessa's won't match!

Has anyone else found this?

 

[TenEleven]

That's the deal breaker for me. And may I be more precise in saying that the vertical rangefinder alignment on the Leica's are accurate compared to the Bessa's - the vertical alignment patch on the Bessa's won't match!

Has anyone else found this?

Never had an issue. That said I've used Bessas only briefly. I prefer the 50ies and 60ies Canon RFs for LTM

 

[shimokita]

No reason to sell anything at this point...

Use the M4-P with hot-shoe or external meter until it's obvious if something needs to change. One option it to try a spot meter... yes it's big and something extra to carry, but you might enjoy the benefits, even if used only for a short time...

 

[filmtwit]

Yes.

End of story.

 

[farlymac]

Sell the Bessa, and get a VC II meter for the M4-P so you'll have a back-up for the M6 that feels and works like the same camera.


PF

 

[f.hayek]

There's nothing wrong with an incident meter or a VCII.....other than a clunky set up for the beginning of the 3rd decade of the 21st century. Because you can still ride a horse to work, doesn't make it practical.

Buy the damned M6 Classic; newer than the M4P and when/if the M6 meter fails sometime in the year 2035, it will again be an M4P.

 

[Rob-F]

There's nothing wrong with an incident meter or a VCII.....other than a clunky set up for the beginning of the 3rd decade of the 21st century. Because you can still ride a horse to work, doesn't make it practical.

Buy the damned M6 Classic; newer than the M4P and when/if the M6 meter fails sometime in the year 2035, it will again be an M4P.

No, it won't. It will be an M6 with a broken meter. It won't quite be functionally an M4P because the latter has more accurate framelines. I don't expect rangefinder framing to be 100%, but in my mind, 69% won't do (see my earlier post on this).

 

[Huss]

Does the M4-P get the zinc bubbles and rangefinder patch flare out like the M6?

 

[farlymac]

Does the M4-P get the zinc bubbles and rangefinder patch flare out like the M6?

Don't know about the flare (haven't noticed it yet myself), but the earlier ones had brass tops. They have the inset window frames, while the zinc tops have flush frames.

PF

 

[rhechcapel]

My M4-P has a recessed finder, so is presumably a brass top. I certainly can't see any bubbling.

According to this thread the flare is specific to the M6: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/did-the-leica-m4p-flare-as-badly-as-the-m6.150407/

 

[f.hayek]

I thought the bubbling effect was only seen with the zinc, something not used before the M6 (or since).

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Does the M4-P get the zinc bubbles and rangefinder patch flare out like the M6?

The RF condenser, which helped prevent RF patch white-out, was removed about half-way into M4-2 production and put back in with the introduction of the MP. So every M4-P (and every M6) was produced without the RF condenser.

Most M4-P tops are brass; only the very last batches were zinc (in preparation of the M6). Almost all M6 topcovers were zinc. Many of the special edition M6 models (along with the titanium models) were brass. The very last batches of the M6TTL were also brass.

All M7 topcovers are brass.

And FWIW, Don Goldberg ("DAG") can add the RF condenser to any rangefinder for around $200.

 

[Tom R]

What do you hope to achieve by doing this? Assuming that your equipment is maintained and in working condition, you're replacing a dependable tool with an untested tool that offers nothing more than a built-in meter (?).

I don't know how "good" the builtin meter is on the M6, nor do I know if anyone can repair/replace it should something go wrong. (I do know that it's becoming more difficult to find certain replacement parts for the M4-P and thus (I assume) the same will apply to the M6.)

I don't know how many M6's are susceptible to the "viewfinder flare" issue that I've heard about on this forum, but, again, I don't know if this is a problem with the M4-P. I own and use two M4-P bodies almost daily and have had no "focussing flare" arise in varied lighting conditions.

I do know how to use several hand-held meters that are perfectly acceptable for everything from controlled lighting (flash units, Norman units, etc.) to almost every likely working scenario. By the way, some of these units are quite portable. I would go even further and say that I prefer a good quality hand-held light meter to any built-in meter that I've used on the popular SLRs during the 1970's era.

I guess, at the end of the day, this is a personal decision; you have to choose what's going to work for what you do.

 

[Bill Clark]

I own an M4-P.

Years ago, at a wedding, in a rush, I dropped it. I only used it to make B&W photographs. Some of the high end folks thought they needed film B&W photographs. What can I say? Beauty is in the mind of the checkbook holder.

Picked it up, it worked just fine. Kept on using it. Never skipped a beat!

Still works. Black worn off in some spots.

M4-P is a wonderful camera.

I don’t own any Leica cameras with electronics.

Someday, maybe I’ll write how I always got balance with light with the photographs I made. Digital really made it easy. I hate blown out skies & backgrounds! I’ve been told human brains are wired to have the eyes go to the brightest part of a photograph first. I want the first thing the viewer goes to to look are the faces of people in the photograph.

Smiles.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I dropped mine M4-2. It has bump on the top plate and prism has to be re-glued.
Should have keep M4-P instead. Or switch from cement sidewalks street photography to weddings on carpet.
🙂

 

[Mark C]

This was a more fun thread than I expected. I assumed everybody would recommend the M6, but preferences drift around.

Since it doesn't matter anyway, I'll pipe in just for fun. Sell them both and buy and M4-2 with the simpler finder. Get an M3 if you want the bigger view with 50mm, plus a more accurate rangefinder than any of these. I did just that, but end up using the M4-2 anyway so...

Seriously though there has always been a lot of love for the M4-P and it sounds like you have the earlier version, which I'd prefer. I believe the frame lines changed to the less accurate M6 style at the same time as the viewfinder glass changed, and I think the move from brass top was related to that glass change. I'm sure somebody will be able to correct any detail I got wrong about that.

 

[hap]

I have an M5 and I'm considering getting a R3A or a M4-P. (I already have used a M6 in the past)

Why? I was in a camera store last month where the friendly proprietor handed me a M4 (I'm not sure which version it was) and I felt lightheaded by how compact and light it was compared to my M5. It's just a 100 grams difference, but still...

The R3A I'm considering because I'm a 50mm guy and want to experience the 1:1 finder.

Which one should I go for? They're nearly the same price (R3A and the M4-2).

Hmmm... you might regret getting rid of a nice working M5. Not easy to replace. Yes, it's quirky and brick-like, sort of "not" Leica but a wonderful camera. If I want the classic sort of Leica experience...I use M4-P. However, even M4-P not built like a M3, which has a a beautiful feel.

My only Bessa experience is the "R". It's nice for chucking on LTM lenses and giving them a workout with a good finder and decent meter. Light and kind of insubstantial.

 

[Guth]

One thing is for sure, despite the negative marks the M6 has received in this thread, the market overall adores these cameras even more now than before. At this point in time there are indeed examples of cameras just like my M6 TTL selling for more than twice what I paid for the camera new back in the year 2000. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that someone could have purchased one of these cameras at the beginning of the year, only to sell it now just a few months later at a nice profit. People can go on with the gloom & doom predictions of failed meters and the like when it comes to the M6, but then consider what buyers are willing to spend on digital M cameras — accepting that the expected usable lifespan of those devices will be shorter than that of the meter circuitry in an M6. I suppose that everyone has their own limits as to what they are willing to accept in order to get what they want.

At 58 years of age, I've already surpassed the number of years my own father spent on this earth by 6 years. I have more concerns about my own longevity than that of my camera meter — which in my case is preferred as a built-in unit. With that in mind, since this thread started I bought a Minolta CLE (of even greater gloom & doom fame, lol) as a potential successor to my M6. At the prices the TTL versions in particular are selling for, sanity might ultimately force me to unload it. In my case if I were to sell, then that would be it for me and Leica gear as I just wouldn't be up to spending the kind money this gear is now bringing in return. That thought does still give me pause. So for the time being, the CLE is serving as a compliment to the M6 rather than a replacement.

 

[jsrockit]

One thing is for sure, despite the negative marks the M6 has received in this thread, the market overall adores these cameras even more now than before. At this point in time there are indeed examples of cameras just like my M6 TTL selling for more than twice what I paid for the camera new back in the year 2000.

Yes, it is a classic... I loved my M6. I never knew of the "issues" until coming to this site. Some people (like me) just like an internal meter.