Should the M camera range be axed?

FX trading said:
whose prospects at the moment are (unnecessarily) far from bright.
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References please.

Revenue, back-log, profit, layoffs, what are you talking about ?

Truth is Leica is doing exceptionally well. Better than 2 years ago anyways.
 
Leica's strength, and weakness, has always been continuity. You can put a pre-WW2 Hektor or Summar on an M8, if you want to. They have to innovate without changing to survive - this has always been the case. It is an impossible mission. One thing - with the amount of used lenses and bodies out there, there will be no shortage of good, attractive Leica film gear for a long, long time.
 
End of the M line. They make make something that will use the M lenses but another evolution of the existing M,. no way. Time to take a new look . I love my MP but it's as if VW were still making the old Beattle only now it has GPS.
 
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Ridiculous. That's like saying Swiss timepieces should be axed because they don't have built-in stopwatches, countdown timers, alarms, organisers, etc. which even digital watches have.

The point of using a Leica is not AF, IS, 1000-pt matrix metering, etc.

I think the priority for Leica is how to reduce new prices-- it's a vicious cycle because people turn to the used market when new prices are so high, thus lowering demand causing Leica to keep raising prices.

FX trading said:
Let me play devil's advocate for amoment- Should Mr. Kaufmann decree the end of the M-range and it's replacement by something new? In fact, is the M the modern equivalent of the IIIG model in 1960? Points to consider include the following:
-Plenty of used ones on market, limiting demand for new
-Expensive, especially compared to main opposition
-No AF, image stabilization, zoom and other current goodies
-No watch technologically to Canon, Nikon, etc
-No upgrades possible anymore (digital backs, finders, etc)
-No serious attempt to develop new, upcoming markets (mainly BRICs)

Perhaps this discussion will help bring out solutions and directions for the Company, whose prospects at the moment are (unnecessarily) far from bright.

Quite often it is from very difficult and challenging situations that great ideas and solutions are conceived.

Let's see what comes out- however, if production is to stop, please give me sufficient advance notice so that I can get my last orders in!
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Let me be the "You Know What" in the punchbowl. I'd like to see a reissue of a LTM III model (IIIx) with a 35mm viewfinder and combination range/diopter correction as in the past. Two eyepieces - -one for rangefinder, one for viewfinder as in the past. A better piuckup spool to avoit having to trim the film leader. Film advance as former (and in the MP). A compact 35mm f 2.0 (a la pre-asph V4). Hot shoe for aux finder, flash, etc. Simplified shutter speed selector. No fancy coverings. No fancy top and bottom plates.

Just a pocketable 35 mm precision camera that really returns to the basics. Yeah, and you'd have to compute exposure on youer own, as this wouldn't be a "point and shoot" camera.

If you've ever owned and really used a III series Leica, you'll understand my suggestion.
 
Call me a traditionalist but I want the film based M rangefinders to stay, there should be a few new film cameras floating about out there. Honestly when I can afford it, I want to get a new black paint MP.

Reality is Leica has the M8, it was not perfect and the early owners were pissed at spending $5000 for the privilage of being beta testers. You guys want the modern rangefinder experience that works, go look at the Ricoh GRD or the new Sigma that's going to land shortly.

I am getting a little sick of these threads, do you guys actually go out and take pictures or just sit around and pine away for a camera that will never exist?
 
Uncle Bill said:
Call me a traditionalist but I want the film based M rangefinders to stay, there should be a few new film cameras floating about out there. Honestly when I can afford it, I want to get a new black paint MP.

Reality is Leica has the M8, it was not perfect and the early owners were pissed at spending $5000 for the privilage of being beta testers. You guys want the modern rangefinder experience that works, go look at the Ricoh GRD or the new Sigma that's going to land shortly.

I am getting a little sick of these threads, do you guys actually go out and take pictures or just sit around and pine away for a camera that will never exist?
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someone's getting cranky!
;D
 
chris91387 said:
maybe develop one last "great" film rangefinder before going out?
they could charge more and people would pre-order like crazy to buy "the last leica film rangefinder in production"

sort of like nikon did with the f6 (although some may disagree)

- chris
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I still contend that this was Konica's idea behind the Hexar RF: it was to be their valedictory statement on 35mm cameras before...well, before Stuff Happened. Before the plug got pulled and everything photographic went down the tubes. I was thinking about this as I walked into (the expanded and mostly nicely-remodeled) Adorama this evening for a bunch of fresh Portra and XP2.

And, yes, the F6 is Nikon's valedictory statement on 35mm as well. Their last? Probably. But I've said (as has Dante Stella, who actually bothered to put it in-print, digitally speaking) for a while that, as far as film-based SLRs go, there's not much in the way of mountains left to climb, technologically speaking. (On the digital front, they haven't even established base camp yet, IMO.)

Is there a suitable (presumably digital) replacement for the M "concept?" As far as I'm concerned, not by a long shot: the best dSLRs, IMO, are damnably clumsy and oversized (particularly regarding lenses) in comparison, which will take another two product generations to get to grips with. Just about every non-dSLR concept has come up short on several levels. Everybody, Leica included, is hunting in the dark for the new "answer." It ain't here yet, and I'll happily shoot film until it does arrive (and I think it will; strike that, I know it will). I can wait. 🙂

Okay, where's that decompression chamber...?


- Barrett
 
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NB23.... "..The problem with internet forums is all the newbies and retards voicing their opinions while the intelligent folks are outside shooting."

LaL.. sometimes things just slip out!
 
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Daggers back in their scabbards, guys...you're starting to scare me...

To add to my earlier post (as if I haven't gone on enough already), I'm thinking about precedents in the SLR world. Everybody knows about Minolta's X700 and Maxxum 7000 cameras. What a lot of people might not know, or might have forgotten, is that these cameras saved Minolta's corporate ass at critical junctures in the company's history. Leica gets run up as the poster child for "sick" photography concerns, but there are plenty of examples of Japanese firms biting the dust: I remember vividly when Petri and Miranda snuffed it, and the memory of Contax/Yashica (via Kyocera, which of course lives on), Bronica, Rollei (yes, I mean the Rollei I knew), and my beloved Konica and Minolta (still here in name–sorta–but not in product), still smolder. It's been a rough five or so years, and even though I don't own anything with Leica's name on it–for the moment, anyway–I'm hoping they avoid the same fate. They will if they're smart.


- Barrett
 
I have to agree w/ endustry. There is no real alternative to the M. The Bessa is just not in the same league (or price), and the Hexar is no more. Ditto for the Contax G. It remains to be seen how much longer the Zeiss Ikon will be around, as they can't be selling many of them. But having said that, Leica is obviously at the design end for the M. What else is there to do to it? Finally, after decades, the thing has a meter and AE. So what else could they add? AF would require a totally new camera and lenses.

I love RF cameras for their small size and quiet operation, and I love the quality of Leicas, but I am afraid they are on the edge of becoming what the Morgan was in the auto world. That was a quirky, neat design that attracted a loyal following, but the concept could only go so far.

I also agree that Nikon is probably selling the F6 because they have them, and when they are used up they will be gone. Film isn't dead, thank goodness, but 35mm film cameras just about are. But since I don't see much crossover between the DSLR shooter and the RF shooter, maybe Leica can continue to sell to their small market for a while. It seems like a deadend w/o technological advances though.
 
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Leica could re-start fabricating the M4-P as cheaper and batterie-less alternative to the MP and M7. If they would sell it for ~1500$ (Leica high-price range) it would make a good addition to the new Summarit lens series, IMHO.
 
myoptic3 said:
I love RF cameras for their small size and quiet operation, and I love the quality of Leicas, but I am afraid they are on the edge of becoming what the Morgan was in the auto world. That was a quirky, neat design that attracted a loyal following, but the concept could only go so far.
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Point taken. But, of course, Morgan is still around, as are their admirers...

And, yes, of ocurse, the car world is one world, and the camera world yet another. But the fact that Leica has made it this far, either because of or in spite of their actions (we can, and have, successfully argue[d] the point either way here), and at least part of this has to do with the fact that a given number of people have been buying the damn things. Yes, Leicas have long been shoulder-candy for the well-moneyed, but so have the top-end SLRs and dSLRs du jour from the ususal suspects. (If you don't believe me, hang around Adorama or B & H for an hour or so on any given Sunday). Doesn't diminish the camera's usefulness a jot. 🙂


- Barrett
 
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