should you be charging if you have to ask how much to charge?

back alley

back alley

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i see it all the time in various photo facebook groups...people asking how much to charge for different photo services.
i know folks have to start somewhere if they want to make money with their cameras but it seems to me like these folks have so little experience that they should be embarrassed to charge in the first place!

and rookie questions about gear...makes me wanna scream!
 
FrankS said:
Yes, but everyone starts out as a newbie.
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Dear Frank,

Very true. And most of us have failed at trying to charge too much, and succeeded in charging too little.

What depresses me is the number of people who ask how much they should charge for something they clearly don't know how to do; which I suspect may be another way of phrasing the original question.

Cheers,


R.
 
Indeed. Common sense would dictate that before you start charging for your work, you do some research on what said work ordinarily sells for so you know what you're going to get out of working.

There are plenty of sources of information ... APA Editorial Photographers is a good site and a good starting point (http://www.editorialphoto.com). Best Business Practices for Photographers (http://www.amazon.com/Business-Practices-Photographers-Second-Edition/dp/1435454294) is another good starting point.

I acquired and read thoroughly several similar information sources before I ever hung out a shingle to offer photographic services. It only makes sense to do that when you're going into business.

Most people who ask such questions on open hobby forums like this one are hobbyists who dilute the market for people trying to make a living... :-\

G
 
My contract is still based off of one another photographer sent me through the popphoto forums 8 or 9 years ago. And yes, I was one of those asking what the going rates were for photographers. I've been in business for my self full time for 6.5, so I must be doing something right based off of those initial inquiries :D
 
my point was more to do with people who possess little experience and yet are comfortable to charge others for their 'practice' sessions.
have any others experienced this on Facebook photo groups?
 
back alley said:
my point was more to do with people who possess little experience and yet are comfortable to charge others for their 'practice' sessions.
have any others experienced this on Facebook photo groups?
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Presumably they're asking because someone picked them out, asked them for photos and indicated a willingness to pay. At least that's the context in which I've seen that question, and I have seen that question.

And I also have seen that question from people who I think have no business charging anyone. But it's often the case that people who aren't particularly adept don't recognize that they're not particularly adept. And it's a big world so sometimes there are others who don't recognize a lack of expertise -- enough so to form a market for non-expertise.

Paraphrasing CS Lewis a bit, the hard problems are often not the ones that are obviously hard. For those we see the problem and consult help and work through it. The hard problems are the ones where we skate right over the problem without ever knowing it's there. And if we skate right over it so, sometimes, do other people.
 
back alley said:
i see it all the time in various photo facebook groups...people asking how much to charge for different photo services.
i know folks have to start somewhere if they want to make money with their cameras but it seems to me like these folks have so little experience that they should be embarrassed to charge in the first place!

and rookie questions about gear...makes me wanna scream!
Click to expand...

Where you ever young?
 
Godfrey said:
Indeed. Common sense would dictate that before you start charging for your work, you do some research on what said work ordinarily sells for so you know what you're going to get out of working.
[...]
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that's what they are doing... research... (also)by asking people with experience on forums.
Plenty of people here on RFF who (at least they say they) are long time pros with lots of experience, exhibitions and money made with their images.
What's wrong with asking them?
+Maybe they already have read here and there, have formed an idea and they just look for a 2nd opinion?

Some folks have indeed more self-confidence or more optimism, than experience... This, sadly, will probably change over time :D
but some of us are also guilty here, isn't it?
 
Actually how much should I charge is one of the more often asked question in a little circle of pro-photographers I am part of. Some photographers get asked by someone they know or a client they had a longer working relationship with if they could do a little job for them it's not for the company but for them personally. Now the photographer isn't sure how much he can charge a business friend or someone they know so what does the smart photographer do he asks other photographers who might have had the same problem in the past.

Rookie questions about gear some of the big names in photography didn't know a lot about the equipment but are great at the just as important part of the business giving the client what he wants and make the client feel good. Ellen von Unwerth comes to mind.

Honestly why shouldn't even less than great photographer not ask for money they have to pay the cost that occur (travelling time, working time, phone bill, electricity, etc... etc..) during a shoot.

And finally in regard to the inaptness of the photographer apparently some people liked the inapt photographer's work otherwise they wouldn't have asked the photographer to do the photoshoot. Taste and opinion differ even among clients.

BTW. One of the worst and inapt photographers I know is very high in the photographers guild hierachy in Austria he is also an arrogant ass to boot.
 
Godfrey said:
Indeed. Common sense would dictate that before you start charging for your work, you do some research on what said work ordinarily sells for so you know what you're going to get out of working.
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The problem of course, is getting real information.

I for one would never discuss publicly what I charge for consulting, except to say it is the most I can possibly squeeze out of a client, and in the end it will sometimes be too little.

I once offered work to a particularly fussy client at double my rate, thinking it the only polite way to put him off. To my amazement he accepted, and all I can say is, I charged half of what the job was worth.
 
What about the ones that have to ask what camera or lens to use. If you can't figure that out I don't think you're ready for pay work.

I was discussing this not too long ago with a fellow commercial photographer that was in business 70 years. I've been in it full time 48 years and both of us feel the level of photoghic quality is the lowest we've ever seen in the professional world. It too easy for a person to get into the market now with cheap dslr's.

It's not uncommon for my clients to comment "you must have a great camera to make photos like that". My comment is let me place my camera on the table and see what kind of photos it makes without me. It's what's two inches behind it not the camera.

I'm afraid the perception is all you need is a DSLR and Photoshop and you're a pro.
 
If they are able to make a living, despite their lack of knowledge, with their photography yes than they are pros. Wether one likes it or not.

Even before PS and DSLR a lot of pros had very little knowledge about the art of photography they knew a lot about the tools but sucked at the actual work and art. On the other hand some of the best photographers I know are very nontechnical and do frequently ask other photographers for advice about cameras and lenses they know very little about cameras and lenses but have a good eye and what's even more important know what they want to get out of a shot in short they have a vision (most important tool of the trade).
 
x-ray said:
I was discussing this not too long ago with a fellow commercial photographer that was in business 70 years. I've been in it full time 48 years and both of us feel the level of photographic quality is the lowest we've ever seen in the professional world. It too easy for a person to get into the market now with cheap dslr's.
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Funny, we are all so different about what we find interesting.

I spent two weeks at the Venice Biennale this year, and never tired of the new photo work being produced, especially the Chinese photos, and media.

Although Peter Doig’s latest paintings, at the Palazzetto Tito, still took my heart, as did Joan Jonas at the US pavilion.
 
DominikDUK said:
If they are able to make a living, despite their lack of knowledge, with their photography yes than they are pros. Wether one likes it or not.

Even before PS and DSLR a lot of pros had very little knowledge about the art of photography they knew a lot about the tools but sucked at the actual work and art. On the other hand some of the best photographers I know are very nontechnical and do frequently ask other photographers for advice about cameras and lenses they know very little about cameras and lenses but have a good eye and what's even more important know what they want to get out of a shot in short they have a vision (most important tool of the trade).
Click to expand...

these seem to be mostly married women with kids, second income earners, doing wedding and baby photos.
 
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