Shutter Vibration? Remove Metering-arm!?

[paniolo]

Hello
is there a way to remove the metering arm?
With every shutter release I have the feeling that my CL is shaking a bit. Perhaps because of the flipping arm.
I noticed a very soft release on my freshly serviced Leica M3, stronger vibration on M2 (not serviced), but its still present on both.
So maybe its the shutter itself.

How is your feeling about the shutter vibration on your CL?
Do you notice that too or did I just got a shutter that needs service to run unnoticible smooooooth again?

I have no comparision with other CL's.


Regards
Tobi

 

[ZeissFan]

Are your photos sharp? That's the real determining factor? If your photos aren't sharp, is it because the swinging arm caused the camera to move?

I wonder if a piece that size could generate enough momentum to cause the camera to shift laterally. Does it move in the same direction as the shutter curtains? If it moved in the opposite direction, then the movements of the shutter and the arm could cancel each other.

If your photos are sharp, then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Dez]

It's a very subjective call. What I might consider to be perfectly acceptable may be important vibration to you, but I have to say that I find no problem with the CL, and would not recommend losing the metering capability in search of fewer vibes.

I am assuming that the meter isn't working in your camera. This is common with CL's but the usual failure modes are very easy to fix. If your battery check still works, the problem with the meter is probably intermittent contact in one of two sets of contact points.

If you take the top off (taking the top off a CL is the easiest job in all of camera repair), you will notice a set of electrical contact points immediately behind the wind shaft. This is the switch that turns the meter on when the wind lever is pulled slightly out, and it tends to get cruddy. You can clean them with a piece of paper rubbed between the points. Another set of points lives behind the battery test button. It's a bit harder to get at, but not difficult. After taking off the top, the whole front comes off with four screws around the periphery. If the battery test doesn't work, there is something a bit worse wrong with it.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[FrankS]

I don't think Leica engineers would build a camera and send it to market with a design flaw that would cause enough vibration to result in blurry images.

 

[Rob-F]

I don't think Leica engineers would build a camera and send it to market with a design flaw that would cause enough vibration to result in blurry images.

If the meter stalk caused vibration or unsharpness, I think we would know about it by now! Of course, there might be a problem with it, but the right thing to do is to get it fixed--not pull the stalk out. If in doubt, I would call Sherry Krauter and ask about it.

 

[paniolo]

Thanks for all the replies.
No, my meter is not working anymore, but thanks for the advice how to repair it. I will give it a try.
Indeed the metering arm is very small, flipping back from the middle to the outside of the film area (horizontaly), the shutter is vertical.

And yes, my photos are sharp, I am just scared to use the low speeds that I realy like. especialy 1/8 and 1/15.
I will make some scans over christmas and check for diagonal camera shakes.

I have used the last year leaf shutter lenses only. So the CL feels and sounds very hard when I hit the shutter. It makes "SNAK!", not just "sdip". I would compare it to a SLR flipping mirror by feel (minolta xd-7). Of course not that strong and clunky, but I realy think that there is a present vibration.

Maybe I became paranoid by finding the best camera for me and still have something to claim about. ;-)


Is there a chance to mount the Jupiter 12 and collapsible lenses to the CL, if the arm is removed?


PS: I have forgot to mention that my 1/2s speed is working very bad, sometimes its stuck, sometimes it works. I have to pull the lever a bit and the shutter closes by itself.


Regards
Tobi

 

[Richard G]

It's normal. The M5, with a similar but larger system, was dubbed the 'musical' Leica for this after vibration when the Meter jumps back into place after the exposure.

 

[k__43]

I can't imagine that the meter arm has so much impact
I think the lighter and smaller body compared to M-Leicas might have more influence on camera shake at slow speeds .. I had not much problems in low light with mine, i.e. the usual share of keepers.
If you are very concerned about this you might consider a leaf shutter camera like the Hexar, should be cheaper than a CL+40mm even.

 

[sanmich]

use the "B" speed, and try to identify if what worries you happens when the arm folds or when it falls back (before or after the shutter release).
If it's after, you can just disregard it. if it happens before, I would guess you can disregard it too 😉

 

[paniolo]

The arm is moving back in the film area when you advance the film.
But ok, I will continue checking the vibration as soon my new roll is finished.
Maybe I got the impression that the shutter is vibrating because of the much louder noise compared to a leaf shutter.

Thank you guys!

 

[aldobonnard]

There is no special vibration with the CL, if it is in good state.
Your CL seems to have been poorly maintained, you should have it repaired and regularly serviced by Leica.
It's a great little camera, but a mechanical camera, which needs attention and adjusting from time to time.

 

[Dez]

Thanks for all the replies.

Is there a chance to mount the Jupiter 12 and collapsible lenses to the CL, if the arm is removed?

PS: I have forgot to mention that my 1/2s speed is working very bad, sometimes its stuck, sometimes it works. I have to pull the lever a bit and the shutter closes by itself.

I can't check right now, but I suspect the back of the J12 would still hit some of the shutter surround, which is quite thick in the CL. I'll see if I can verify that later today.

The collapsible Summicron will fit with no problem, with the meter in place. In my CL, a Summitar just barely clears the arm, and an Elmar is a definite no-no.

Sticky slow speeds are a common problem on the CL, but usually easy to fix. If you are even a little bit confident, this is a good DIY.

The top comes off easily by unscrewing the top of the wind lever and the shutter button surround. A piece of soft flexible rubber helps here. There is a small Philips screw (needs a size 00 driver) to take out, and then the top can be lifted and slid off the upper strap lug. The lug is held on with two Philips screws accessible from the film compartment: it's helpful to loosen them.

With the top and back off, you can reach the four screws that hold the front of the camera in place- this just comes off easily, giving you access to the inner workings. The slow speed mechanism is a vertically-oriented pivoted gear train carriage on the left side. You can see it move as you change the shutter speeds. It is almost certainly dirty, and will work properly with cleaning. It's not really necessary to remove the assembly from the camera, but you could do a better job by doing so.

To clean it while still in the camera, hold the camera face down above a bowl of some mild solvent, such as mineral spirit. Use a small modeller's paintbrush, get as much of the solvent into the gear train as possible, allowing it to drop back into the bowl. Keep the camera face down to keep the solvent from getting into the rest of the camera. You may want to blow the last of it out of the gear train with canned air.

When dry, apply a very small amount of very light oil (I work with watches, and have appropriate lubricants) to the ends of all shafts that are accessible in the slow speed train. Sewing machine oil will do the trick. Lubricate every shaft pivot you can reach except for the shaft of the little barbell-shaped piece in the actual escapement- leave that dry. Do NOT get oil on the gear teeth- that will bring your problem back quickly.

While you have the camera apart, check the meter electrical contacts as I mentioned earlier in the string. Put everything back together, and if you are both careful and lucky, you will have a CL that works like new.

All this sounds complicated, but it is really quite straightforward, and is what you would be paying a camera technician hundreds to do.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[Dez]

No, the Jupiter 12 will not fit on the CL, even with the meter arm out of the way. There's just too much ironwork surrounding the shutter aperture.

Cheers,
Dez