zincman
Addicted: Cameras, Audio
After reading too much, and seeing about the last review I care to read :bang:,time for some down to earth real time user info. Simple question: What do you think about the DP-1? It seems to be all over the map as far as the "Experts" see it. How about the opinion of some of us beer drinkers. I am one of those guys that has just tip toed in digital, still die hard film guy, but I want to become a true all around modern, middle aged, former hippy, digital user.
Thanks
Thanks
Avotius
Some guy
A lot of people dont agree with me on this camera, but I think it is a joke. It is as if sigma never bothered to test the camera before they put it out. The lens was an after thought too and a real pity because they are going to put out the DP2 and it might be a flop because once again they wont bother to make it tolerable.
zincman
Addicted: Cameras, Audio
Hummmmmmmmm
Hummmmmmmmm
I must have put this in the wrong forum or I am the only beer drinker out there.
Hummmmmmmmm
I must have put this in the wrong forum or I am the only beer drinker out there.
boy_lah
Discovering RF
I love mine and have answered this question too many times to do it again.
Pls do a quick search on "Sigma DP1" on this forum. Here are some better threads I've contributed to.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69133&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68703&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68578&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69781
There are also other fans of the DP1 here at RFF. I'm sure some may chime in.
Pls do a quick search on "Sigma DP1" on this forum. Here are some better threads I've contributed to.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69133&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68703&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68578&highlight=sigma+dp1
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69781
There are also other fans of the DP1 here at RFF. I'm sure some may chime in.
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emraphoto
Veteran
well quite to the contrary i find the dp1 a brilliant little machine.
scale focus, iso 800, display off, external finder and it makes for a very discreet and silent documentary shooter. a good portion of what is showing up on my site in the "unity" gallery, including the first two frames, has been shot on one.
one the street, beyond long write times it makes a very potent street shooter. can you rattle off frames like crazy? no, certainly not. but for careful, composed, discreet shooting i have found it very, very powerful.
www.galler7.com and visit the "unity" gallery for samples
scale focus, iso 800, display off, external finder and it makes for a very discreet and silent documentary shooter. a good portion of what is showing up on my site in the "unity" gallery, including the first two frames, has been shot on one.
one the street, beyond long write times it makes a very potent street shooter. can you rattle off frames like crazy? no, certainly not. but for careful, composed, discreet shooting i have found it very, very powerful.
www.galler7.com and visit the "unity" gallery for samples
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
Ugh. My message needs to be at least 10 characters in length. So, ugh again.
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
I love the image quality with good light, the lens is as sharp as any of my M mount lenses, really it's the only way to get an image quality comparable to a DSLR in your pocket.
Now the bad: it's slow, AF performance quite pedestrian (but good MF capability), in bad light it is as good as the cheapest digital P&S (or should I say as bad)
A decent a street shooter, even if I think the LX3 may be better for this purpose, but for landscape you just can't beat it!
Now the bad: it's slow, AF performance quite pedestrian (but good MF capability), in bad light it is as good as the cheapest digital P&S (or should I say as bad)
A decent a street shooter, even if I think the LX3 may be better for this purpose, but for landscape you just can't beat it!
takeda72
Established
I really want to buy one. But... should I wait for the DP2? When the DP2 will be available and how much it will cost? I heard march... Any info, anyone?
Thanks.
Thanks.
johnwnyc
Member
As a general point-and-shoot camera, it's a total abomination. Sigma succeeded in taking all the fun out of shooting with slow autofocus, long write times, poor 200+ ISO performance, and a useless LCD that completely blows out in bright light. I've used Java applets in 2001 that were better and faster than the accompanying Mac version of the software. (If you pony up for the upgrades you can convert the RAW files to DNG and use Lightroom.)
BUT -- and it's a big "but" -- for composed shooting with plenty of time i.e. landscapes, it's the best compact digital camera on the market on picture quality alone, bar none. It has a good lens and a very good sensor, which unfortunately sometimes suffers from magenta blooming in bright light in contrasty situations.
Overall I'm very happy with it but would hesitate to recommend it to anyone. Weird, huh?
BUT -- and it's a big "but" -- for composed shooting with plenty of time i.e. landscapes, it's the best compact digital camera on the market on picture quality alone, bar none. It has a good lens and a very good sensor, which unfortunately sometimes suffers from magenta blooming in bright light in contrasty situations.
Overall I'm very happy with it but would hesitate to recommend it to anyone. Weird, huh?
historicist
Well-known
I borrowed one and was pleasantly surprised. Read all the reviews, was wondering what Sigma were drinking making a camera circa 1998 slow and still delivering it a year late.
Indeed, the AF is slow, the LCD is rubbish, and the shot to shot time really poor, and using the Sigma raw software is like wading through molasses. In theory, it's a dreadful camera and I was prepared to hate it. Compared to of the better small digicams like the GRD, it is at least a couple of generations back in the interface, if not more. Despite being an enthusiast camera, important settings are still buried in menus, etc. etc. It's quite surprising how badly thought out it is as a camera - it is almost as if Sigma made a special effort to make it worse than t could have been.
Anyway, then I borrowed one. All of the above is true - but surprisingly unimportant in practice. Even the slow AF wasn't much of a problem, and I was using it mostly in social situations.
And what makes these trials worthwhile is the quality - it is the first digital camera (at least non SLR) I have used where the pictures look completely natural, and, even if 28mm f4 isn't going to give you noctilux-shallow dof, at least you get a bit - much more than a GRD, for instance.
At high ISO, it is very noisy and the saturation very low, but it looks natural - think film grain, neopan 1600 or so - rather than the chroma blotches most digital cameras have. In practice, surprisingly acceptable. The flash metering is also particularly good.
Seriously, the image quality really surprised me. I did get a magenta cast in one picture out of three hundred or so, and that pretty much ruined it, but apart from that it was only pleasant surprises. The lens is exceptionally good, if it was an afterthought it was a good one - in M mount people would be paying a fair few hundred pounds for it alone.
I think that wheras cameras like the Canon G9 or the GR Digital have wasted a really intelligently thought out, great body on a sensor that delivers so-so results, Sigma have a poor body design with a great sensor, and in the end, I would rather have a camera that makes better pictures than one which feels great in the hands but doesn't.
So why didn't I buy one? 28mm is a focal length I really don't get along with, and the Sigma raw software was sooo sloooow. I don't care how good the pictures are, if I have fight my computer for hours to edit them.
Since then Adobe have added support for the files to camera raw, so that is no longer any objection. And the DP2 will be 40mm, a good focal length for me, so I'll be seriously considering one when it comes out.
The only competition is the micro 4/3rds camera Olympus will likely be bringing out, which will likely be in all round terms better, so I'm going to wait it out until I cam make a proper comparison.
But to finish, I would agree that I couldn't recommend it: its strengths and negatives are so strong, that you really need to try it out for yourself and see if it suits your style.
Indeed, the AF is slow, the LCD is rubbish, and the shot to shot time really poor, and using the Sigma raw software is like wading through molasses. In theory, it's a dreadful camera and I was prepared to hate it. Compared to of the better small digicams like the GRD, it is at least a couple of generations back in the interface, if not more. Despite being an enthusiast camera, important settings are still buried in menus, etc. etc. It's quite surprising how badly thought out it is as a camera - it is almost as if Sigma made a special effort to make it worse than t could have been.
Anyway, then I borrowed one. All of the above is true - but surprisingly unimportant in practice. Even the slow AF wasn't much of a problem, and I was using it mostly in social situations.
And what makes these trials worthwhile is the quality - it is the first digital camera (at least non SLR) I have used where the pictures look completely natural, and, even if 28mm f4 isn't going to give you noctilux-shallow dof, at least you get a bit - much more than a GRD, for instance.
At high ISO, it is very noisy and the saturation very low, but it looks natural - think film grain, neopan 1600 or so - rather than the chroma blotches most digital cameras have. In practice, surprisingly acceptable. The flash metering is also particularly good.
Seriously, the image quality really surprised me. I did get a magenta cast in one picture out of three hundred or so, and that pretty much ruined it, but apart from that it was only pleasant surprises. The lens is exceptionally good, if it was an afterthought it was a good one - in M mount people would be paying a fair few hundred pounds for it alone.
I think that wheras cameras like the Canon G9 or the GR Digital have wasted a really intelligently thought out, great body on a sensor that delivers so-so results, Sigma have a poor body design with a great sensor, and in the end, I would rather have a camera that makes better pictures than one which feels great in the hands but doesn't.
So why didn't I buy one? 28mm is a focal length I really don't get along with, and the Sigma raw software was sooo sloooow. I don't care how good the pictures are, if I have fight my computer for hours to edit them.
Since then Adobe have added support for the files to camera raw, so that is no longer any objection. And the DP2 will be 40mm, a good focal length for me, so I'll be seriously considering one when it comes out.
The only competition is the micro 4/3rds camera Olympus will likely be bringing out, which will likely be in all round terms better, so I'm going to wait it out until I cam make a proper comparison.
But to finish, I would agree that I couldn't recommend it: its strengths and negatives are so strong, that you really need to try it out for yourself and see if it suits your style.
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kdemas
Enjoy Life.
I think historicist hit the review on the mark. I own many P&S cameras and the image quality from the DP-1 is outstanding for a pocket camera.
That said, the controls and "feel" is not quite there (I am a big GRD fan in terms of ergonomics). If you can be patient with its limitations it is one terrific daylight shooter.
Kent
That said, the controls and "feel" is not quite there (I am a big GRD fan in terms of ergonomics). If you can be patient with its limitations it is one terrific daylight shooter.
Kent
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Have you really tried to use a DP-1? Once you learn how to use it properly, it's clearly the best digital point and shoot ever made.
Of course, it has some quirks, but I think it shouldn't be too difficult for our fellow forumers to adapt to the Sigma. Using the DP-1 requires more reflexion than using other digital cameras but the quality of the pictures makes it worth the hassle. A Leica M3 has no autofocus, no lightmeter and no continuous shooting at 3 FPS, but people shooting with a Leica M3 don't complain about their tool being "limited" or "quirky". That's the same for the Sigma, it's an incredibly powerful tool in the right hands, but there is a steep learning curve.
If you ever have the occasion to try the camera, put it on AV mode, F/6.3, manual focus set on the hyperfocal (2.5m), 800 ISO and black and white mode: the ultimate street shooting engine. It's fast, responsive and everything is sharp from 1.25m to infinity.
Check the work of John Densky (galery7) with the DP-1. His pictures even have that Tri-X look...:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5418
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5504
Cheers!
Abbazz
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boy_lah
Discovering RF
I concur with Historicit's remarks except love the 28mm efov and I've learnt to work with the RAW software (which has one really cool feature). The foveon's dynamic range is also far superior to say D200 and on par/a tad better than my 5D. Some LARGE samples.
Pushed +1 to iso1600
Taken in good light
A colour shot
Pushed +1 to iso1600
Taken in good light
A colour shot
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M4streetshooter
Tourist Thru Life
Let me just say that, I ain't gettin' in the middle of this...
but, my M8 is in the camera bag...and the DP1 is always with me......
nuff said....
shooter
but, my M8 is in the camera bag...and the DP1 is always with me......
nuff said....
shooter
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
A Few Recent Pictures with the DP1
A Few Recent Pictures with the DP1
(JPG straight from the camera, no post processing except resize)
Enjoy!
Abbazz
A Few Recent Pictures with the DP1
(JPG straight from the camera, no post processing except resize)
Enjoy!
Abbazz
emraphoto
Veteran
it's odd that the camera gets such an unjust rep for shooting speed with folks unable to see past the autofocus speed? over and over i hear "good for landscapes" or "lousy high iso results"... much of this totally contrary to my experience.
when i was looking at a suitable compact the FIRST thing i was on the hunt for was one with a useable manual interface, including the focusing. the dp1 has, in my opinion, the BEST manual/scale focus interface i came across. not only is it easy to set up it is, most importantly, very easy to maintain or change on the fly without having to engage the lcd. it also has a function option to set the ael lock to lock a focal distance of your choice ala "snap mode" in the gr's but with a choice of distance. manual/scale focus, manual settings, screen off/external finder and it is a very, very quick and silent shooter. the only shortcoming is of course the very slow write times for raw files and the shallow buffer. if sigma can fix these either via firmware or in the upcoming dp2 it would be as close to perfect as i could ask for.
if you are on the hunt for d700 high iso performance then yes, the dp1 will fall short. that being said i regularly shoot at iso 800 with very workable files. i am far more interested in content/the meat of the photograph vs absolute grainless perfection so please keep that in mind. i have not done it myself but i have seen folks pushing it two steps beyond with excellent results.
if you are on the hunt for a no brainer point and shoot with blazing auto focus then yes... you will want to pass on by the dp1. if you are on the hunt for a camera that will shoot silently, quickly, handles well and produces very workable files and you don't mind putting a little thought into the process then i urge you to consider the camera.
the camera is a brilliant street shooter! it's to bad the magazine/web reviews get regurgitated ad nauseam whilst they totally miss the capability of the camera.
as abbazz so very kindly pointed out i have shot some documentary work using the dp1 and it can be found at www.galler7.com under the "unity" gallery if you care to look. it has turned out the dp1 is also a very capable documentary camera. one mans opinion of course.
when i was looking at a suitable compact the FIRST thing i was on the hunt for was one with a useable manual interface, including the focusing. the dp1 has, in my opinion, the BEST manual/scale focus interface i came across. not only is it easy to set up it is, most importantly, very easy to maintain or change on the fly without having to engage the lcd. it also has a function option to set the ael lock to lock a focal distance of your choice ala "snap mode" in the gr's but with a choice of distance. manual/scale focus, manual settings, screen off/external finder and it is a very, very quick and silent shooter. the only shortcoming is of course the very slow write times for raw files and the shallow buffer. if sigma can fix these either via firmware or in the upcoming dp2 it would be as close to perfect as i could ask for.
if you are on the hunt for d700 high iso performance then yes, the dp1 will fall short. that being said i regularly shoot at iso 800 with very workable files. i am far more interested in content/the meat of the photograph vs absolute grainless perfection so please keep that in mind. i have not done it myself but i have seen folks pushing it two steps beyond with excellent results.
if you are on the hunt for a no brainer point and shoot with blazing auto focus then yes... you will want to pass on by the dp1. if you are on the hunt for a camera that will shoot silently, quickly, handles well and produces very workable files and you don't mind putting a little thought into the process then i urge you to consider the camera.
the camera is a brilliant street shooter! it's to bad the magazine/web reviews get regurgitated ad nauseam whilst they totally miss the capability of the camera.
as abbazz so very kindly pointed out i have shot some documentary work using the dp1 and it can be found at www.galler7.com under the "unity" gallery if you care to look. it has turned out the dp1 is also a very capable documentary camera. one mans opinion of course.
cam
the need for speed
i've used one, i own one, i know how to use it properly, and still i completely agree with Avotius' statement.
it is truly one of the most miserable cameras i have ever used. even if a camera is merely a tool, this "tool" just gets in the way. it is counter-intuitive on almost every level. i haven't quite had the heart to sell it because the image quality is second to none in the compact form, but i never use it unless i force myself. force being the key word.
if image quality is the top of your requirements and you can put up with all its faults, the DP1 is the camera for you. (one caveat, though, as far as the compact form factor -- you do need to get an additional lens to do close-ups so it's compact no more.)
boy_lah
Discovering RF
errr....no good for high iso? in colour definately, but in B&W? I regularly shoot iso1600 and 3200. It looks amazing to me - as per my pix above. Both shot iso1600. more on my flickr site.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I liked it, but not enough to keep it. Very awkward interface. But I miss it. I got the LX3, which is an overall better camera, but those Foveon files are something special.
If they can make a Foveon sensor that looks good at 1600, in color, and wrap it in a good package, I'll be interested...
If they can make a Foveon sensor that looks good at 1600, in color, and wrap it in a good package, I'll be interested...
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
It's still much easier to use than my Bessa RF: what about a left handed shutter release? separate film advance and shutter cocking? and distinct viewfinder and rangefinder windows?. This has never stopped me to use the Bessa when I need the big 6x9 negative in a pocketable camera
The main drawbacks of the Sigma DP1 are the sluggish autofocus and the long raw file writing time. I don't use autofocus and I have no need to take more than one picture per minute. The DP1 will certainly not be the camera of choice for a sports shooter or an image hunter on a safari but it certainly does the job for me.
Cheers!
Abbazz