Chrisrw
photomonkey
Been thinking about simplifying my collection ( and style) to one film camera ( Rollie 35) and ridding myself of interchangeable lens cameras (Bessa R2,Leica M5) and going to a nice fixed lens digital. I have the GRDIV for EDC and street, but the larger sensors are beckoning to me. I shoot mostly b&w, fairly static shots and love the images from both the Sigma and Ricoh GR. Any thoughts on the handling and b&w conversions between these two?
Would having both Ricohs be redundant?
Still considering the Sony NEX in order to keep some CV glass I like, but that's another issue
Thanks for any feedback.
Would having both Ricohs be redundant?
Still considering the Sony NEX in order to keep some CV glass I like, but that's another issue
Thanks for any feedback.
The Ricoh is a lot more versatile to use. High ISO, great ergonomics, etc. The lens is matched to the sensor very well. Maybe not Sigma well, but very good. The Sigma is a great camera, but not versatile. It's slower, not as many PP options, but the sharpness is hard to beat. ISO 400 and below can be trusted only. People will say they got great results at higher than ISO 400, but it isn't consistent.
GaryLH
Veteran
I have both the gr and the sigma cameras. The gr is my everyday put it in my front jean pocket camera. The sigma and fuji cameras I tend to use when I go out to locations for deliberate shooting.
Going out shooting color in locations that need high color iso work like deep forest or inside a building or night time stuff nod always goes to the Fuji. Any color work in bright sun light always goes to the sigma. Monochrom work always the sigma. Whether color or BW, nothing beats the sigma in terms of tonal range and over picture iq so long as u stick w/ its known iso limits. Color don't go over 400, but 800 is acceptable to some, BW iso 1600 and I have had luck all the way to 4000 w/ playing games w/ the color channels.
Af speed, Ricoh is better.. In practice, neither is as good as a dslr. Ricoh snap focus is where it can really win over others, especially for street shooting type activities. In terms of overall picture iq it is a clear second compared to the sigma. If u are more interested in other aspects such as high iso performance, better af, and more convenient package the nod goes to the Ricoh. Plus the Ricoh has the built in flash and converter for 21 fov (btw I am finally getting the missing adapter I need gh3 for the gw3 on Monday).
Landscapes, still life, portrait work, and macro stuff, nothing is going to beat the sigma dp merrill except the sd1 Merrill... So long as u stay w/in the known iso limits. The 36mp non-AA cameras is where u will c the Bayer sensor cameras catch up in terms of overall picture iq and will beat it easily in terms of high iso in MHO.
Gary
Going out shooting color in locations that need high color iso work like deep forest or inside a building or night time stuff nod always goes to the Fuji. Any color work in bright sun light always goes to the sigma. Monochrom work always the sigma. Whether color or BW, nothing beats the sigma in terms of tonal range and over picture iq so long as u stick w/ its known iso limits. Color don't go over 400, but 800 is acceptable to some, BW iso 1600 and I have had luck all the way to 4000 w/ playing games w/ the color channels.
Af speed, Ricoh is better.. In practice, neither is as good as a dslr. Ricoh snap focus is where it can really win over others, especially for street shooting type activities. In terms of overall picture iq it is a clear second compared to the sigma. If u are more interested in other aspects such as high iso performance, better af, and more convenient package the nod goes to the Ricoh. Plus the Ricoh has the built in flash and converter for 21 fov (btw I am finally getting the missing adapter I need gh3 for the gw3 on Monday).
Landscapes, still life, portrait work, and macro stuff, nothing is going to beat the sigma dp merrill except the sd1 Merrill... So long as u stay w/in the known iso limits. The 36mp non-AA cameras is where u will c the Bayer sensor cameras catch up in terms of overall picture iq and will beat it easily in terms of high iso in MHO.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
I forgot to mention, they share the same battery. They can actually complement each other as well.. 21/28 fov w/ the gr and 45 w/ the dp2m. 2 cameras along w/ the 21 adapter. This is an option I have been thinking about using next time I go to someplace like Yosemite for vacation.
Gary
Gary
David_Manning
Well-known
This is day 2 with my Ricoh GR (the newest APS-C one). I haven't seen the images on a proper monitor yet, but I love the way it shoots, and it's quite a step up in usability and shooter's experience from compacts like my RX100.
In fact, I won't be getting a 28mm lens for my M9...I'm just going to use the GR for that FoV. Yes, I think it'll be that good.
New Ricoh GR fan.
In fact, I won't be getting a 28mm lens for my M9...I'm just going to use the GR for that FoV. Yes, I think it'll be that good.
New Ricoh GR fan.
It's what I use for 28mm too.
jpfisher
Well-known
I own a GR and have shot with all three DP Merrills. I have to say, that from a convenience perspective, it's tough to beat the GR. It's small, the image quality is what you would expect from a 16MP APS-C sensor, the lens is sharp, and the close focus ability is useful.
The DP Merrills. If I had the patience to work with the files, I'd love them a lot more. Wonderful images at ISO 800 or below. But they require you to (a) work in Raw, (b) work with Sigma's proprietary software, and (c) to know what the heck you are doing.
When I was reviewing the cameras I got some special coaching from the Sigma tech guys on the best way to convert files before importing them into Lightroom to actually work on them: "In order to get the best results from the DP2, Sigma's engineers recommend that you set Sharpening to -1 or -1.5 in Sigma Photo Pro, and later apply sharpening in Lightroom. They also recommend dropping color saturation down one or two notches, and to set noise reduction at its lowest for photos shot at ISO 100 or 200, but to leave it in its default setting when shooting at higher ISOs."
Following those steps produced files that I was extremely happy with, great detail and color, but 16-bit TIFFs eat up a lot of space. Sigma would benefit greatly if Adobe took the time to build Foveon support into Lightroom.
Like David, I see the GR as a replacement for a 28mm lens. I've actually got an Elmarit 28mm ASPH that I'm considering parting with for a few different reasons, and the GR is one of them.
The DP Merrills. If I had the patience to work with the files, I'd love them a lot more. Wonderful images at ISO 800 or below. But they require you to (a) work in Raw, (b) work with Sigma's proprietary software, and (c) to know what the heck you are doing.
When I was reviewing the cameras I got some special coaching from the Sigma tech guys on the best way to convert files before importing them into Lightroom to actually work on them: "In order to get the best results from the DP2, Sigma's engineers recommend that you set Sharpening to -1 or -1.5 in Sigma Photo Pro, and later apply sharpening in Lightroom. They also recommend dropping color saturation down one or two notches, and to set noise reduction at its lowest for photos shot at ISO 100 or 200, but to leave it in its default setting when shooting at higher ISOs."
Following those steps produced files that I was extremely happy with, great detail and color, but 16-bit TIFFs eat up a lot of space. Sigma would benefit greatly if Adobe took the time to build Foveon support into Lightroom.
Like David, I see the GR as a replacement for a 28mm lens. I've actually got an Elmarit 28mm ASPH that I'm considering parting with for a few different reasons, and the GR is one of them.
Chrisrw
photomonkey
Thanks for all the great insights and feedback. Since I already have a Ricoh, I thought I might give another system a try, like he sigmas. I have no doubt that the GR would be great as I love my GRDIV. If it doesn't work out, I'd probably sell both and just get the GR.
but those images from the sigmas sure are alluring
but those images from the sigmas sure are alluring
Melancholy
To grain, or not to grain
I have the GR and love it for all it is; a perfect camera for what I want to use it for. Also, I would love to have a DP2 of the obvious reasons GaryLH lists and it would give me another focal length along the GR.
David_Manning
Well-known
Well, I got my GR files imported into the MBP. Wow...very nice.
I know this isn't a Ricoh GR love-fest thread, nor an image thread, but I couldn't make this image with any M-mount 28mm (too close, for one, but very sharp).
SilverEfex Pro, grain, yada yada...
I know this isn't a Ricoh GR love-fest thread, nor an image thread, but I couldn't make this image with any M-mount 28mm (too close, for one, but very sharp).
SilverEfex Pro, grain, yada yada...
Chrisrw
photomonkey
Thanks for the images and opinions. Your making it hard for me to decide between the two
gilpen123
Gil
The GR IMO is unbeatable in street shots, snap on and quick AF and the ability to shoot at 35 crop which I assigned to Fn 1. If you are doing mostly still, DPM is definitely better but you may need to bring a tripod or support of some sort for lowlight.
taemo
eat sleep shoot
the GR is very versatile now IMO especially with latest FW.
28mm.. crop to 35mm and 50mm..yes you lose MP when cropping, 6MP with 50mm but really it's something that you would use as last resort plus i've learned that 6MP is still usable for small prints and more than enough for web anyway.
21mm with adapter, built in 3-stop ND filter
it is my landscape/wide-angle camera now and it is so small.
i wanted a DP1M but can't justifyit now that i have the GR now, wouldn't mind getting DP3M for tele shots though
28mm.. crop to 35mm and 50mm..yes you lose MP when cropping, 6MP with 50mm but really it's something that you would use as last resort plus i've learned that 6MP is still usable for small prints and more than enough for web anyway.
21mm with adapter, built in 3-stop ND filter
it is my landscape/wide-angle camera now and it is so small.
i wanted a DP1M but can't justifyit now that i have the GR now, wouldn't mind getting DP3M for tele shots though
retow
Well-known
By the way, the Ricoh adapter works also on the DP2M with very good results.
So yes, the GR & DP2M & Ricoh wide angle adapter make for a great and surprisingly useful combo. And like for some others, the GR plus wide angle adapter replaces the need for a 28mm and 21mm lens for my M9, it`s that good.