Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Foveon and non foveon. There won't be a lot of pics in this thread obviously because they aren't exactly thick on the ground but I'm sure I'm not the only person at RFF with a Sigma DSLR.
SD1M ... Sigma 50mm f1.4 ... ISO 400
SD1M ... Sigma 50mm f1.4 ... ISO 400
GaryLH
Veteran
Here are some recent shots from the SD1M. Some of these I may have posted to other threads already.. Mainly taken with either the 17-70 or 18-200 Zoom lenses if I remember correctly.
Gary
Gary
paulfish4570
Veteran
love the lighthouse photo, gary. scrumptious ...
GaryLH
Veteran
Thanks Paul and Jarski
Gary
Gary
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
noimmunity
scratch my niche
The Foveon sensor!
Is anybody using the Sigma 8-16 with it?
Is anybody using the Sigma 8-16 with it?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
A rare (for me) foray into colour.
GaryLH
Veteran
I think he had some passing thoughts about taking a bite out of that bloke w/ the camera 
he does not look to happy about being disturbed.
Gary
he does not look to happy about being disturbed. Gary
Eric T
Well-known
Keith - great lizard shot!
Gary - terrific light house!
jarski - the snake looks all too real!
I can't get enough of these Foveon images. Keep them coming.
Gary - terrific light house!
jarski - the snake looks all too real!
I can't get enough of these Foveon images. Keep them coming.
GaryLH
Veteran
Some shots after the rain - SD1M with 70f2.8 Macro
Gary
Gary
kuzano
Veteran
Inquiry about Merrill....
Inquiry about Merrill....
I was very interested in the Foveon sensor and the SD15 camera, but the wait for the SD15 wore me out, and I made another move.
Then I started seeing information on the Merrill name (for the late designer of the foveon sensor as I understand it).
Sparked my interest again in Sigma. I used to shoot the Sigma film SLR's years ago.
I need to catch up on the foveon/Sigma Merrill inforation. Particularly interested in seeing where the SD15 which is available all over eBay transitioned to the SD1M.
Can anyone point me to a forum, blog or review site so I can play catchup on the Foveon Sigma Merrill evolution.
Thanks in advance.
Inquiry about Merrill....
I was very interested in the Foveon sensor and the SD15 camera, but the wait for the SD15 wore me out, and I made another move.
Then I started seeing information on the Merrill name (for the late designer of the foveon sensor as I understand it).
Sparked my interest again in Sigma. I used to shoot the Sigma film SLR's years ago.
I need to catch up on the foveon/Sigma Merrill inforation. Particularly interested in seeing where the SD15 which is available all over eBay transitioned to the SD1M.
Can anyone point me to a forum, blog or review site so I can play catchup on the Foveon Sigma Merrill evolution.
Thanks in advance.
Spanik
Well-known
Oh man, I had my toughts all set on a Fuji X-T1 but when I see those Sigma photo's and colours... I really want knobs for speed and iso and diaphragm. But on the other hand those photo's. Might compromise and get a dp1m. But a sd1m with the 18-35 is soooo tempting.
GaryLH
Veteran
GaryLH
Veteran
Ok this is going to come in multiple post.
In general, the Merrill is a continuation of the sensor on the sd15. As opposed to the new Quattro.. RGB channels use the same 1-1-1 stacking over each photo cell site. Instead of 4.9 million photo cell sites there are now 15 million.
The color is very slightly different and the older sensor had a more silky look to it.
New Merrill sensor is a true apsc (1.5 lens factor) and has improved digital circuits.
Will post more later
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
The foveon sensor has no color array like the Bayer or xtran and does not have anti-aliasing. Instead it does have photo sites that are designed to filter out red green blue (RGB) in the reverse order, w/ blue on top. W/o Bayer or xtran filters to worry about, there is no algorithm like guessing of the true color of any particular photo cell or if that cell represents an edge color or not.
In a perfect world, all the light intensity for a particular color is passed correctly down to the next level of the stack.. This is where foveon has problems and why high iso is not good.
- color
-- good to 400 - ok to 800 (ymmv)
- b&w
-- good to 800 - ok to 1600
-- color wheel tricks - I find ok up to 4000 (ymmv)
U need a sensor in the 32-36mp range to equal the overal iq of the Merrill sensor or beat it. I have seen examples where it goes either way. There was one recent example of a shot from a sd1m vs Sony a7r that was pretty interesting. It was sent to me by a fellow rff member. This was a still life fruit bowl shot.
- imperfections in the banana showed up clearly in the sd1m shot but not in the a7r one.
-- I believe this is due to the Bayer algo looking at adjacent cells and averaging things out..
- the fine hairs from the vine stem of the tomato on the other hand had more detail then the one from the sd1m.
In general tonal quality is better w/ the foveon sensor. The monochrome from the Merrill gives the Leica monochrom a run for its money.
Both the dp and sd Merrill family uses the same sensor. The main diff resides in the digital circuits which have been improved and the sensor specifically designed lenses for the dp family.
Next set of post will have some interesting links.
Gary
In a perfect world, all the light intensity for a particular color is passed correctly down to the next level of the stack.. This is where foveon has problems and why high iso is not good.
- color
-- good to 400 - ok to 800 (ymmv)
- b&w
-- good to 800 - ok to 1600
-- color wheel tricks - I find ok up to 4000 (ymmv)
U need a sensor in the 32-36mp range to equal the overal iq of the Merrill sensor or beat it. I have seen examples where it goes either way. There was one recent example of a shot from a sd1m vs Sony a7r that was pretty interesting. It was sent to me by a fellow rff member. This was a still life fruit bowl shot.
- imperfections in the banana showed up clearly in the sd1m shot but not in the a7r one.
-- I believe this is due to the Bayer algo looking at adjacent cells and averaging things out..
- the fine hairs from the vine stem of the tomato on the other hand had more detail then the one from the sd1m.
In general tonal quality is better w/ the foveon sensor. The monochrome from the Merrill gives the Leica monochrom a run for its money.
Both the dp and sd Merrill family uses the same sensor. The main diff resides in the digital circuits which have been improved and the sensor specifically designed lenses for the dp family.
Next set of post will have some interesting links.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Forgot to mention..
I always post 1024x1024 max Jpg. The details that u c in the tiff16 files are amazing.. Sigma jpg engine is really bad. I do raw+jpg. The jpgs are used for sorting. Once I know what raws to select, it is batched processed in Sigma Photo Processor (spp) and imported into Aperture.
Raw+jpg average about 55mb each pair and tiff16 is 88mb. Write to flash is slow but there is a 7 (raw+jpg) cache buffer, so u can keep on shooting until it is full.
Sd1m af speed is about d200-300 generation.
Gary
I always post 1024x1024 max Jpg. The details that u c in the tiff16 files are amazing.. Sigma jpg engine is really bad. I do raw+jpg. The jpgs are used for sorting. Once I know what raws to select, it is batched processed in Sigma Photo Processor (spp) and imported into Aperture.
Raw+jpg average about 55mb each pair and tiff16 is 88mb. Write to flash is slow but there is a 7 (raw+jpg) cache buffer, so u can keep on shooting until it is full.
Sd1m af speed is about d200-300 generation.
Gary
Last edited:
GaryLH
Veteran
Some interesting links
Some interesting links
Ok here are some interesting links to explore
D800 vs sd1m
http://madshutter.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-saga-begins-sigma-sd1-merrill-vs.html
RFF tips for foveon
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134149
High iso b&w
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=133467
Good video about using spp in monochrom
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=133623
Possible solution for magenta cast to explore
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=134065
How to create smoother looking skin on portraits
http://x3magazine.com/2013/03/09/smoother-portraits/
Some sigma propaganda resource links
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/product/sd1-merrill-digital-slr-camera-0?gclid=CImBzfqIrrcCFWZk7AodTAYA5g
http://www.sigma-dp.com/
http://x3magazine.com/
http://blog.sigmaphoto.com/
The new sensor announced at cp+ just last week - Quattro. So far only on the dp family.
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/sigma-dp-quattro
Some interesting links
Ok here are some interesting links to explore
D800 vs sd1m
http://madshutter.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-saga-begins-sigma-sd1-merrill-vs.html
RFF tips for foveon
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134149
High iso b&w
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=133467
Good video about using spp in monochrom
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=133623
Possible solution for magenta cast to explore
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...d.php?t=134065
How to create smoother looking skin on portraits
http://x3magazine.com/2013/03/09/smoother-portraits/
Some sigma propaganda resource links
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/product/sd1-merrill-digital-slr-camera-0?gclid=CImBzfqIrrcCFWZk7AodTAYA5g
http://www.sigma-dp.com/
http://x3magazine.com/
http://blog.sigmaphoto.com/
The new sensor announced at cp+ just last week - Quattro. So far only on the dp family.
http://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/sigma-dp-quattro
GaryLH
Veteran
This is not the camera to use if u need fast af or high iso color. Think shooting Kodachrome or tri-x.
Gary
Gary
kuzano
Veteran
Thank You!
Thank You!
First, I have not been put off by reasonable AF speed. Not necessarily fast. I am a large format shooter and FAST is not part of the vocabulary.
Second, I don't do high ISO. Frankly, I believe the camera industry has spend far too much R&D money on the megapixel race, AND for the few people who shoot in the dark.
Thank you so much for all the information and the great number of links. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. I had not thought that Sigma would continue so much on a better Foveon. Looks like they put a lot of energy and money into this solution for their sensor.
Am I correct in assuming Sigma is strictly Foveon on the DSLR and Mirrorless front. Do they use any Bayer sensors at all.
One of my serious interests is the technology that avoids the Anti Aliasing history on Bayer Sensors.
I am thinking about picking up an SD15 used, and then start saving for the SD1M, or whatever it reaches by then. After reviewing all the information you provided.
I also note that you mention an AF speed in the D200/300 range. I have been quite happy with the AF speed of my Fujifilm S5 Pro, which is a Nikon D200 body.
I've been using Olympus PENS and the new 16mp sensor, no AA filter in the E-PL5
Do you think the SD15 will be a good preperatory move before the latest Foveon DSLR?
Thank You!
First, I have not been put off by reasonable AF speed. Not necessarily fast. I am a large format shooter and FAST is not part of the vocabulary.
Second, I don't do high ISO. Frankly, I believe the camera industry has spend far too much R&D money on the megapixel race, AND for the few people who shoot in the dark.
Thank you so much for all the information and the great number of links. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. I had not thought that Sigma would continue so much on a better Foveon. Looks like they put a lot of energy and money into this solution for their sensor.
Am I correct in assuming Sigma is strictly Foveon on the DSLR and Mirrorless front. Do they use any Bayer sensors at all.
One of my serious interests is the technology that avoids the Anti Aliasing history on Bayer Sensors.
I am thinking about picking up an SD15 used, and then start saving for the SD1M, or whatever it reaches by then. After reviewing all the information you provided.
I also note that you mention an AF speed in the D200/300 range. I have been quite happy with the AF speed of my Fujifilm S5 Pro, which is a Nikon D200 body.
I've been using Olympus PENS and the new 16mp sensor, no AA filter in the E-PL5
Do you think the SD15 will be a good preperatory move before the latest Foveon DSLR?
GaryLH
Veteran
I am not aware of a Bayer based sensor by Sigma. Currently there is only the sd and dp families.
I never owned a sd14 or 15 so I can't help there.
The af speed is purely memory. I haven't used either camera systems in ages since they were on loan from a friend of mind. But what I was mainly trying to say is that if u are expecting latest dslr af performance, u are going to get it. It is one to two generations behind.
There are a couple of rff'ers that picked up the sd14/15 recently, they maybe able to give u some more insight as well. To me the main difference between the older vs newer Merrill sensor is
- Merrill
-- has more detail (due to triple the photo sites)
-- slightly different color balance
-- monochrome has more tonal range
- Pre-Merrill
-- silky smooth look that is not found in the Merrill series
-- one stop less iso is what I have heard from others
Merrill used prices for the dp series is not bad, the sd is still up there though. The blogger who did the d800 vs sd1m has a lot of good info on the Merrill series in terms of what he has discovered between using the dp and sd family vs his normal Bayer cameras.
Good luck
Gary
I never owned a sd14 or 15 so I can't help there.
The af speed is purely memory. I haven't used either camera systems in ages since they were on loan from a friend of mind. But what I was mainly trying to say is that if u are expecting latest dslr af performance, u are going to get it. It is one to two generations behind.
There are a couple of rff'ers that picked up the sd14/15 recently, they maybe able to give u some more insight as well. To me the main difference between the older vs newer Merrill sensor is
- Merrill
-- has more detail (due to triple the photo sites)
-- slightly different color balance
-- monochrome has more tonal range
- Pre-Merrill
-- silky smooth look that is not found in the Merrill series
-- one stop less iso is what I have heard from others
Merrill used prices for the dp series is not bad, the sd is still up there though. The blogger who did the d800 vs sd1m has a lot of good info on the Merrill series in terms of what he has discovered between using the dp and sd family vs his normal Bayer cameras.
Good luck
Gary