How well does the Sigma FP compare with the competition ?
Sigma FP Shooters - What do you think ?
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bimp
any FP shooters ?
any FP shooters ?
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Just buy it...
jsrockit
Moderator
Compare in what way? Autofocus speed? When using adapted lenses? When making videos? IQ?
Samouraï
Well-known
This is a wonderful video camera, especially when flying it on a small gimbal such as the Ronin SC. For this usecase, I don't think there is a better camera.
As a strictly stills camera, it can get the job done, but suffers from strobing under non-black body lighting. The focus system is only contrast-detect to my knowledge, and it is indeed abysmally inaccurate and slow. I prefer to use manual glass, and that has worked great for me in the past with the A7S, but here, the pop-in isn't as fast or reliable seeming, but maybe it is mostly the lack of viewfinder that makes it difficult. The menu system is as confusing and deep as what is found in Sony's A7 cameras. In fact the whole camera is a bit messy feeling despite having the hardware toggle for switching between video and photo modes (which is an amazing idea and appreciated here).
What bothers me most is that the DP Quattro cameras are among my favorite functioning cameras period, I find them so easy and enjoyable to use, and their quirks and limitations are charming rather than irritating. (I also own an M3 and a Mamiya 6, among other digital cameras). And the FP behaves nothing like a DP Quattro despite the fact that they are both point-and-shoots with contrast-detect autofocus.
For such a small camera, the video quality is amazing and because it is such a small camera, it is ideal for travel and for use on small gimbals. 12-bit raw video for this price is a steal, particularly when the 135 sensor size is becoming a new standard that other makers are developing upon in 2020.
As a strictly stills camera, it can get the job done, but suffers from strobing under non-black body lighting. The focus system is only contrast-detect to my knowledge, and it is indeed abysmally inaccurate and slow. I prefer to use manual glass, and that has worked great for me in the past with the A7S, but here, the pop-in isn't as fast or reliable seeming, but maybe it is mostly the lack of viewfinder that makes it difficult. The menu system is as confusing and deep as what is found in Sony's A7 cameras. In fact the whole camera is a bit messy feeling despite having the hardware toggle for switching between video and photo modes (which is an amazing idea and appreciated here).
What bothers me most is that the DP Quattro cameras are among my favorite functioning cameras period, I find them so easy and enjoyable to use, and their quirks and limitations are charming rather than irritating. (I also own an M3 and a Mamiya 6, among other digital cameras). And the FP behaves nothing like a DP Quattro despite the fact that they are both point-and-shoots with contrast-detect autofocus.
For such a small camera, the video quality is amazing and because it is such a small camera, it is ideal for travel and for use on small gimbals. 12-bit raw video for this price is a steal, particularly when the 135 sensor size is becoming a new standard that other makers are developing upon in 2020.
Dogman
Veteran
Kirk Tuck has been posting about the Sigma fp recently. I didn't pay too much attention to his posts because the camera doesn't appeal to me but it might prove useful. Here's his website, you'll have to look for the posts specific to the fp-https://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/
jsrockit
Moderator
It appears to be a dud for stills shooting with native AF lenses.
Black
Photographer.
fp owner here.
Happy to allay fears and confirm any negatives, either way.
I picked up the fp as I have an affinity with Sigma as a manufacturer, but I don't wear rose coloured spectacles in spite of this.
It only arrived a day ago, so at this stage I can't give a comprehensive report, but I can update from time to time. Lockdown isn't very conducive for creating the sort of images I'm interested in, so you'll have to excuse me not posting "test shots". There's enough photos of cats (don't own one) and coffee (never in the cup long enough to photo, these days).
Whatever anyone has read/heard or just believes, from my initial first hand experience, I'm not sure I'd agree (as in, definitely disagree) that it is in any way a "dud" for stills, native lenses or otherwise. You need only follow the Sigmafp hashtag on Twitter for evidence to the contrary.
Is it as fast as other cameras? No.
Does it have a viewfinder that won't make you feel silly for shooting stills? No.
Does it have a realistically usable flash sync speed? No.
I think that with the fp, you have to unlearn your thinking. It's very much a unique product at this price point. Its Bayer, not Foveon, so its not a niche sensor by any means. And this means that it is as capable as any other full frame camera, contrast detect of creating beautiful images. The obstacle isn't the fp - it's the mentality of the user. Or, to be more precise, the people who haven't used it and just care about numbers.
Happy to allay fears and confirm any negatives, either way.
I picked up the fp as I have an affinity with Sigma as a manufacturer, but I don't wear rose coloured spectacles in spite of this.
It only arrived a day ago, so at this stage I can't give a comprehensive report, but I can update from time to time. Lockdown isn't very conducive for creating the sort of images I'm interested in, so you'll have to excuse me not posting "test shots". There's enough photos of cats (don't own one) and coffee (never in the cup long enough to photo, these days).
Whatever anyone has read/heard or just believes, from my initial first hand experience, I'm not sure I'd agree (as in, definitely disagree) that it is in any way a "dud" for stills, native lenses or otherwise. You need only follow the Sigmafp hashtag on Twitter for evidence to the contrary.
Is it as fast as other cameras? No.
Does it have a viewfinder that won't make you feel silly for shooting stills? No.
Does it have a realistically usable flash sync speed? No.
I think that with the fp, you have to unlearn your thinking. It's very much a unique product at this price point. Its Bayer, not Foveon, so its not a niche sensor by any means. And this means that it is as capable as any other full frame camera, contrast detect of creating beautiful images. The obstacle isn't the fp - it's the mentality of the user. Or, to be more precise, the people who haven't used it and just care about numbers.
jsrockit
Moderator
No, the obstacle is comparing a new camera (Fp) to ones you are already used to. If I am used to fast autofocus, why would I want to unlearn that and go back to slow autofocus that hunts (as many videos on the internet show the Fp doing)? I want to like this camera...but you can't unlearn simply because the Fp isn't up to par. You can choose to deal with it or not to deal with it. That doesn't make one person better than the other.
Black
Photographer.
Definitely not saying its making anyone better or otherwise? When did I even suggest that?
Although I have previously owned some digital cameras, I come from mainly shooting medium format on film - AF granted, but single point only, so a case of focus and recompose. For the few digital cameras I've had, I've used the same way. So, for me at least, this is no worse, but it does have the boon of face/eye detect, which is significantly better than not having it.
I guess it depends on the subject matter, in part. I don't think I've ever needed lightning fast AF, even for street.
I'll give the AF a punt when I'm out and about in light of this, however, and come back with my findings. I'm looking to experiment in short form video in the future anyway, so at some point, I'm going to have to do a litmus test.
The other thing I'd add (and this is in general) - I would never see any real sense in moving from one camera system that you're completely happy with to new territory, especially when it's not a regular, run-of-the-mill system - that would be silly.
Moving to something like the fp would mean that you are probably, actively looking for something different. I certainly don't think it is a case for anyone to move to if they are thinking it is better than any other stills camera, because it isn't.
People who are overly concerned about specs hardly ever use their cameras to their fullest, I'd suggest. Happy to be told otherwise though.
Although I have previously owned some digital cameras, I come from mainly shooting medium format on film - AF granted, but single point only, so a case of focus and recompose. For the few digital cameras I've had, I've used the same way. So, for me at least, this is no worse, but it does have the boon of face/eye detect, which is significantly better than not having it.
I guess it depends on the subject matter, in part. I don't think I've ever needed lightning fast AF, even for street.
I'll give the AF a punt when I'm out and about in light of this, however, and come back with my findings. I'm looking to experiment in short form video in the future anyway, so at some point, I'm going to have to do a litmus test.
The other thing I'd add (and this is in general) - I would never see any real sense in moving from one camera system that you're completely happy with to new territory, especially when it's not a regular, run-of-the-mill system - that would be silly.
Moving to something like the fp would mean that you are probably, actively looking for something different. I certainly don't think it is a case for anyone to move to if they are thinking it is better than any other stills camera, because it isn't.
People who are overly concerned about specs hardly ever use their cameras to their fullest, I'd suggest. Happy to be told otherwise though.
jsrockit
Moderator
The tone of your post when stating "The obstacle isn't the fp - it's the mentality of the user. Or, to be more precise, the people who haven't used it and just care about numbers." I took that to mean if you do not want to compromise with the Fp then you are only into numbers.
I still use single point and focus / recompose too... and like I said, I want to like it... but not being able to get my hands on it and only seeing videos...it looked really bad. If it isn't, that's awesome. I would be interested in it and the 45mm 2.8.
Cool.
Sometimes I like to use more than one type of camera...and like you, I am interested in what Sigma does.
Again... 😉 You do not have to be a specs chaser to want your camera to be useful vs. what you already like. I would add...not many people use their digital cameras to the fullest...even working pros... it's almost impossible to do so.
Black
Photographer.
It's not a dig, John - just a simple matter of fact.
People ask for environmental sealing and then don't go and shoot when it's raining, freezing or a sandstorm.
People seek blazing fast frame rates. Movie industry standard was 24fps for a very long time. I sometimes (always) feel that these people would be better off videoing things and just select a frame from that? 😉
People also ask for speedy autofocus, occasionally out of principal I feel, and then just shoot static or molasses speed subjects. Of course, they have every right to do that, but it's the difference between a want and a need.
Whilst I didn't suggest that people who aren't interested in the fp are only into numbers, what I am suggesting is that, especially on forums, there's a lot of e-penis waggling when it comes to spec and brand and such. Its true and you know it is 😀
And you're right - people hardly ever use their digital cameras (and a lot of analogue cameras) to their fullest, so they should only really be concerned about the aspects that they actually use in the really real world. Again, it's a "want" vs "need" thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, but then you can't call people out for calling people out on it! 😉
People ask for environmental sealing and then don't go and shoot when it's raining, freezing or a sandstorm.
People seek blazing fast frame rates. Movie industry standard was 24fps for a very long time. I sometimes (always) feel that these people would be better off videoing things and just select a frame from that? 😉
People also ask for speedy autofocus, occasionally out of principal I feel, and then just shoot static or molasses speed subjects. Of course, they have every right to do that, but it's the difference between a want and a need.
Whilst I didn't suggest that people who aren't interested in the fp are only into numbers, what I am suggesting is that, especially on forums, there's a lot of e-penis waggling when it comes to spec and brand and such. Its true and you know it is 😀
And you're right - people hardly ever use their digital cameras (and a lot of analogue cameras) to their fullest, so they should only really be concerned about the aspects that they actually use in the really real world. Again, it's a "want" vs "need" thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that per se, but then you can't call people out for calling people out on it! 😉
Black
Photographer.
I'm not sure how I'm going to quantify this, to be honest. I reckon if I'm using single point AF and it locks by the time I can count to "one" then I'm probably going to be super happy. I'm not sure I can count to "nought point one" Ha!
Good news is, it seems to be okay so far, but I promise I'll get back to you on it.
jsrockit
Moderator
True...and the days of people choosing a high res still image from a video are coming very very soon. 🙁
It isn't about freezing action always...or tracking fast objects. It is about being able to bring your camera to your eye and focus before the photo disappears. I'm not new to this... someone could be standing and you need to get the shot right before they decide to move. There are many scenarios like this that fast AF (or zone focusing) help.
Sure, on dpreview.com but here...not as much.
Just like you can't assume that someone doesn't use their camera differently and might truly rely on a specific function. Is there always a workaround? Probably...but sometimes it isn't worth it.
jsrockit
Moderator
Got ya... yeah, people expect different things. I just expect modern AF in a camera like this. It's ok. I'll survive. It is a cool concept.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Smallest full frame..
That might be enough for me someday..
I like the look of that sensor..
That might be enough for me someday..
I like the look of that sensor..
Lids
Member
I rented an fp for several days around Memorial Day Weekend. I was interested in it as a more compact body for use with m-mount lenses. I didn't rent the 45mm/2.8 so didn't test AF. I wrote some thoughts on fred miranda here, but the short version is I would've bought the camera if not for the lack of viewfinder. If you find yourself outdoors needing critical focus, the sunlight/reflections were just too much of a hindrance.
Eric T
Well-known
I bought this camera a few months ago. I love it. You may find this hard to believe but i bought it for stills, not video.
The IQ is great. I use it mainly with the Panasonic S 24-105mm lens. This lens is light weight and has image stabilization. The two together make for a very versatile, light weight combo.
The IQ is great. I use it mainly with the Panasonic S 24-105mm lens. This lens is light weight and has image stabilization. The two together make for a very versatile, light weight combo.
dwojr
Well-known
I’ve been thinking about getting one for both stills and video. The black and white jpegs look pretty special to me. Something about the tonality looks great.
jankap
Established
There is the loup. If the camera designers would make the LCD display smaller and marketing would spend a then smaller loupe you would have a viewfinder, ok an EVF.
