Sigma SD1M ... any users out there?

Keith

Keith

The best camera is one that still works!
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I notice that Gary, who has instigated several foveon/DPM threads, has expressed an interest in this camera and after the intial shock of Sigma asking crazy money for the previous version sanity has set in at home office and the newer Merrill version has settled back to an acceptable price.

I thought it may be interesting to discuss the pros and cons of this unique camera.
 
i think it would be nuts to use any sigma camera as a full time camera including the SD1M. it's features are completely lacking even (like no live view, same slow write speeds, poor AF) to cameras a few years ago and getting sigma lenses is difficult. there is most likely almost no second hand market if you don't like the camera.

check out the DPR conclusion
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd1/20
 
FA Limited said:
i think it would be nuts to use any sigma camera as a full time camera including the SD1M. it's features are completely lacking even (like no live view, same slow write speeds, poor AF) to cameras a few years ago and getting sigma lenses is difficult. there is most likely almost no second hand market if you don't like the camera.

check out the DPR conclusion
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd1/20
Click to expand...


I agree with what you say but even dpreview aknowledged that the camera has unique capabilities that will suit a certain type of photographer. At base ISO on a tripod shooting landscapes or in a studio it will match a lot of cameras image wise that cost a hell of a lot more.
 
there has been some talk on FM about what it is exactly that youre getting from the merril sensors.

there was an EXTREMELY compelling post comparing a d800 vs a sigma where the poster had very easily replicated the sigma's look but with substantially higher resolution.

honestly for how bad SPP is making and running a PS script to interpolate, low radius sharpen, nearest neighbor downsize, medium radius sharpen, desaturate reds slightly, boost blues slightly and grade them inbetween and then run a final low radius sharpen is just not a big deal.

Ill give you that the little merril cameras are compelling. they offer great lenses and Sigma did most of the processing work for you. but for a full size SLR, with interchangeable lenses? I just think others play that game a LOT better.
 
Thanks Keith.

Btw from my investigation, the af focus in ir mode looks like it maybe slightly off depending on situation. In the old days of film, I think I remember seeing a ir focus offset mark.. The comments were that removing the dust/sensor protector which doubles as a ir filter, does give u good ir images.. But since the sd1m has no live view, af focus was a bit hit or miss..

To others reading this thread who may not be aware, Keith and I own dp2m's so we are aware of where this issues are w/ sigma foveon based cameras.

It would be great to hear about not only the experience of those who own an sd1m, but I think the sd14 and 15 as well.

- Do the owners of these cameras want to upgrade or stay w/ what they have.
- What do u guys think about the 30f1.4, 35f1.4 or 50f1.4?
- what lenses would u recommend?

Btw, if u got shots to contribute to my foveon image thread, please feel free, the more the merrier.

Thanks and Cheers
Gary

Ps. In my investigation, I found a rumor about a live view version of the sd1m, but that was in one thread.. I cannot find another instance of that rumor so far so I think it is wishful thinking.
 
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redisburning said:
there has been some talk on FM about what it is exactly that youre getting from the merril sensors.

there was an EXTREMELY compelling post comparing a d800 vs a sigma where the poster had very easily replicated the sigma's look but with substantially higher resolution.

honestly for how bad SPP is making and running a PS script to interpolate, low radius sharpen, nearest neighbor downsize, medium radius sharpen, desaturate reds slightly, boost blues slightly and grade them inbetween and then run a final low radius sharpen is just not a big deal.

Ill give you that the little merril cameras are compelling. they offer great lenses and Sigma did most of the processing work for you. but for a full size SLR, with interchangeable lenses? I just think others play that game a LOT better.
Click to expand...

These cameras are definitely not for everyone.. If u just walk thru all the check boxes when u compare them w/ other cameras, they just don't match up well. They really only have these things going for them when shooting at iso 100-200..
- great color accuracy
-- due to no Bayer or xtran filter
- greater resolving power due to
-- no AA filter and no Bayer or xtran filter
-- the way foveon sensor is designed
-- a 16mp sensor that gives the d800 a run for its money
- great b&w that I feel can compete w/ the Leica monochrom IMHO.

All other check boxes, there are a lot of cameras that can do much better. I can buy a refurb'd d600 for less than a new sd1m.. But still for the types of pictures I take and how I use my cameras, the dp1 and dp2 Merrill's are going to remain in my arsenal. My only question is do I want a sd1m?

Thanks for the input
Gary
 
FA Limited said:
i think it would be nuts to use any sigma camera as a full time camera including the SD1M. it's features are completely lacking even (like no live view, same slow write speeds, poor AF) to cameras a few years ago and getting sigma lenses is difficult. there is most likely almost no second hand market if you don't like the camera.

check out the DPR conclusion
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd1/20
Click to expand...

We managed with a hell of a lot less a few years ago. I used to use Sigma SLRS, getting lenses was easy, they may not have been in every shop, but I don't need them to be.

It of course depends on the photos you take, if you are a sports guy, or need high ISO, then it's not for you, but fashion, landscape, etc... I don't see why it couldn't be a full time camera.
 
mugent said:
We managed with a hell of a lot less a few years ago. I used to use Sigma SLRS, getting lenses was easy, they may not have been in every shop, but I don't need them to be.

It of course depends on the photos you take, if you are a sports guy, or need high ISO, then it's not for you, but fashion, landscape, etc... I don't see why it couldn't be a full time camera.
Click to expand...

for $1800 i expect a lot from a camera, at that level a D600 and 6D are not far off in image quality. And the D800/e is a superior imagemaker and camera in everyway.
 
i had an sd14. honestly the single worst user experiences of my life. i'm not a complainer on 'operability' as i think humans are capable of great adaptability, and frankly just need to stop whining. but the sigma tried and ultimately broke my philosophy. interminibly slow and awfully inaccurate AF; horrible dark tunnel like vf made MF impossible. one of every ten photos was stunning, the other nine were garbage, every single button/feature inaccessible or located by a fourth grader. i sold it just before i wouldve thrown it repeatedly into a brick wall.
tony
 
Keith,
I bought an SD1 Merrill a couple of weeks ago. It has all of the foibles you are aware of based on your own DP2m experience. Plus, it has no live view.
BUT - the image quality is superb even with the 18-250mm Sigma zoom lens. The lens has good image stabilization and noise is low at ISO 400.
I just took some photos this afternoon in our neighborhood and noticed that handheld (with a shutter speed at 1/80 sec, f/10, and ISO 100) IQ is about the same as the DP3m on a tripod (1/40 sec, f/11, ISO 100).
Be wary of the image you get on the LCD. As you probably know, the resolution on the Sigma LCD is low so I am usually pleasantly surprised by my images once I import the TIFF images into Aperture and use the loupe.
A couple of recent SD1 wildlife photos came our pretty well but looked miserable on the LCD.
I recommend the versatility of the SDI compared to the DP1-3m cameras.
Even the cheaper Sigma lenses perform well.
Enjoy!
Eric
 
Thanks for info on sd14.

I really only know about the current stuff. Was the sd14 the first gen? I don't have a store locally that carries these cameras. I probably will not be able to check the viewfinder issue until I get one in my hands.

After using so many different cameras over the years, I tend to adapt to most ui related issues except the nex movie button which finally gave up and put the hillbilly fix on it.

Gary
 
rbelyell said:
i had an sd14. honestly the single worst user experiences of my life. i'm not a complainer on 'operability' as i think humans are capable of great adaptability, and frankly just need to stop whining. but the sigma tried and ultimately broke my philosophy. interminibly slow and awfully inaccurate AF; horrible dark tunnel like vf made MF impossible. one of every ten photos was stunning, the other nine were garbage, every single button/feature inaccessible or located by a fourth grader. i sold it just before i wouldve thrown it repeatedly into a brick wall.
tony
Click to expand...

The SD14 was a flawed camera, the SD15 is like the 14 but without the bugs, and I really liked that camera. I think your 1 in 10 remark sums up the SD14, it's capable of great things, but only when it feels like it!
 
FA Limited said:
for $1800 i expect a lot from a camera, at that level a D600 and 6D are not far off in image quality. And the D800/e is a superior imagemaker and camera in everyway.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but for me, the *lack* of features is a selling point of the Sigmas, just like it is on a Leica. I'd rather not carry either of them around, too big and heavy (the SD1 is actually pretty light for a DSLR), so a DP would be better for me.

Is the D800 better, maybe, but it's also better than an M9, but I know which I'd rather have.
 
GaryLH said:
Thanks for info on sd14.

I really only know about the current stuff. Was the sd14 the first gen? I don't have a store locally that carries these cameras. I probably will not be able to check the viewfinder issue until I get one in my hands.

After using so many different cameras over the years, I tend to adapt to most ui related issues except the nex movie button which finally gave up and put the hillbilly fix on it.

Gary
Click to expand...

The SD14 wasn't first gen, but it's pretty old, discontinued some time ago, the SD15 was the replacement, but the SD1 really is a huge upgrade on the SD15. The SD15 is a great camera, the SD14 is OK, but results can be varied.
 
mugent said:
Fair enough, but for me, the *lack* of features is a selling point of the Sigmas, just like it is on a Leica. I'd rather not carry either of them around, too big and heavy (the SD1 is actually pretty light for a DSLR), so a DP would be better for me.

Is the D800 better, maybe, but it's also better than an M9, but I know which I'd rather have.
Click to expand...

why did you bring the M9 into this? aren't we talking about DSLRs?
what features do you think on an SLR can be removed to save weight? a 6D albeit with a plastic body is lighter than the SD1
 
mugent said:
The SD14 wasn't first gen, but it's pretty old, discontinued some time ago, the SD15 was the replacement, but the SD1 really is a huge upgrade on the SD15. The SD15 is a great camera, the SD14 is OK, but results can be varied.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info..
Gary
 
as much as i am against the SD1M, for the price of all DPMs you could get a SD1M and some decent lenses especially on adapters .... the lack of live view is pretty disappointing though, to me the Merrills are tripod cameras
 
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