Sign a petition for menu selectable lens profiles

HAnkg

HAnkg

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Well, Leica seems a bit reluctant to provide users with this option. Let's see how many users would like to see menu selectable lens profiles in a future firmware update. Is it a few online malcontents (like me :) ), or is it a feature that the majority of customers want.

"The undersigned M8 users respectfully request that Leica include an option for user selectable lens profiles via the menu as soon as is possible."

Sign here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/M8menu/petition.html

Your email will remain private, even from me. Might be a good idea to put your country in the comments field.
 
This is a really great idea! It would really save us all the time and money put into encoding our lenes.
 
Definitely a good idea and it would be a relatively minor fix in the next firmware upgrade. Come on Leica you've given us a great camera, please make it even better!
 
If they did this for other manufacturers lenses also - eg CV - I might consider buying one..

Of course they would have to get the thing working properly first (...joke...).
 
Taqi said:
If they did this for other manufacturers lenses also - eg CV - I might consider buying one..

Of course they would have to get the thing working properly first (...joke...).
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No manufacturer will guarantee the function of third party equipment. Why should they accept liability for something they can not control.

Users would be free to select the Leica profile that gave the best results with their non-supported lens at their own risk. Users have found with magic marker coding that you can find a profile that will work OK for most non-supported lenses.
 
HAnkg said:
No manufacturer will guarantee the function of third party equipment. Why should they accept liability for something they can not control.

Users would be free to select the Leica profile that gave the best results with their non-supported lens at their own risk. Users have found with magic marker coding that you can find a profile that will work OK for most non-supported lenses.
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Not asking for any guarantee, just for Leica to stick a CV lens on it & formulate settings as best they can. I'd be happy with that as I am sure leica would do a good job.
 
Taqi said:
Not asking for any guarantee, just for Leica to stick a CV lens on it & formulate settings as best they can. I'd be happy with that as I am sure leica would do a good job.
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It is not reasonable to expect Leica to expend money and resources to make another manufacturers lens function. CV is responsible for it's product. Ask CV to provide a photoshop plugin for their lenses to improve results on the M8 but don't expect Leica to do it. CV or Zeiss aren't going to spend money to improve the function of Leica lenses, nor should they. That's Leica's responsibility, the same goes for CV and Zeiss.

It is reasonable for Leica to let users decide how they will use the existing profiles that are already in the firmware. If you want to use a Leica profile for your CV lens. That's up to you and as testers have shown with magic marker coding it works fine. But that's your decision and you are responsible for the results of using profiles for lens they where not designed for, not Leica.
 
HAnkg said:
It is not reasonable to expect Leica to expend money and resources to make another manufacturers lens function. CV is responsible for it's product. Ask CV to provide a photoshop plugin for their lenses to improve results on the M8 but don't expect Leica to do it. CV or Zeiss aren't going to spend money to improve the function of Leica lenses, nor should they. That's Leica's responsibility, the same goes for CV and Zeiss.

It is reasonable for Leica to let users decide how they will use the existing profiles that are already in the firmware. If you want to use a Leica profile for your CV lens. That's up to you and as testers have shown with magic marker coding it works fine. But that's your decision and you are responsible for the results of using profiles for lens they where not designed for, not Leica.
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Yeah well that's a sale lost then. I would guess if the money Leica would expect to expend by buying a set of popular 3rd party lenses & doing some R&D exceeds any increase in sales revenue then it's a sound commercial decision to stick to their own lenses only.

It being "reasonable" is entirely irrelevant - the assessment should be whether it is a commercially viable and sensible decision, given the number of non Leica M lenses (and hence potential M8 buyers) out there. Given Leica's recent track record they may not be capable of making that judgement.

Btw, your analysis is the wrong way round - it is not to make another manufacturer's lens function (CV lenses work perfectly well - look at the images out there) but rather to make the M8 itself function properly - is it too much to ask that an M mount camera can use M mount lenses?
 
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Taqi said:
It being "reasonable" is entirely irrelevant - the assessment should be whether it is a commercially viable and sensible decision, given the number of non Leica M lenses (and hence potential M8 buyers) out there. Given Leica's recent track record they may not be capable of making that judgement.

Btw, your analysis is the wrong way round - it is not to make another manufacturer's lens function (CV lenses work perfectly well - look at the images out there) but rather to make the M8 itself function properly - is it too much to ask that an M mount camera can use M mount lenses?
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No my analysis is correct. Zeiss and CV make M mount lenses because Leica's patent has lapsed on the mount so anyone can copy the M mount and put it on their lens. Whether it works on any particular camera or not is the lens manufacturers problem as they have no agreement or understanding with Leica. Its not Leica's obligation to guarantee that anyone who wants to copy their mount design will be successful. No camera manufacturer in the world guarantees the function of third party equipment on their products. Especially if they have no licence agreement or control over how the product is designed or manufactured.

What is asked for in the petition is reasonable and doable and would solve the problem for most third party lenses.
 
HAnkg said:
No my analysis is correct. Zeiss and CV make M mount lenses because Leica's patent has lapsed on the mount so anyone can copy the M mount and put it on their lens. Whether it works on any particular camera or not is the lens manufacturers problem as they have no agreement or understanding with Leica. Its not Leica's obligation to guarantee that anyone who wants to copy their mount design will be successful. No camera manufacturer in the world guarantees the function of third party equipment on their products. Especially if they have no licence agreement or control over how the product is designed or manufactured.

What is asked for in the petition is reasonable and doable and would solve the problem for most third party lenses.
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I am not suggesting that it is Leica's problem or obligation, rather that, depending on the economics, it might be a sensible commercial decision (can you tell I work in corporate insolvency? :p ). I totally agree about the petition & have signed it already... But then maybe I want the moon and the stars too.
 
I support this initiative, not because I believe that Leica has any moral or legal obligation to do it, but because I believe it will be in Leica's own best interest. Specifically, it will significantly increase the chances that I will get an M8 at some future date, when I am more fully comfortable that the major teething troubles are truly a thing of the past. As I see it, Leica has made significant progress with many of the "issues", for which they are to be commended. However, I am still not sure the point has been reached where I am willing to cough up the best part of $5K, but menu-selectable lens profiles would be a significant step in the right direction.
 
Perhaps the best of all solutions would be a Leica software smart transfer utility, the sole purpose of which would be to transfer files from card to disc. My PC and Mac both occasionally refuse to recognize my M8 SD's anyway. I assume all the corrections are just non-destructive instructions attached to the RAW files by the firmware. The ingester could contain all the profiles and would allow you to swap profiles, change names, alter EXIF, add copyright and other meta info. The user could choose to have the computer instead of the camera take care of lens corrections. Leica could leave the menu in camera as is preserving their original vision for the camera's user interface. It may be that swaping profiles may require attaching the camera to your PC rather then a card reader but if you needed the functionality it would be worth it. The output of the transfer would be RAW DNG files ready to process in C1, etc.,

It's a solution that provides the best of both worlds. A simple in camera menu, plus the flexibility to correct errors in menu selection or accomodate non-coded lenses in post. A computer software interface can contain a lot more choice then a camera interface. You are also using the interface at a time when it's not competing with your subject for your attention. Down the road Leica would have the option to provide a developers toolkit at a price to third party vendors to develop plug-ins (additional lens profiles, incorporation into apps like iView, Extensis Portfolio) of their own to the transfer utility.
 
Well I'd suggest leitz could provide a menu but it might be difficult to use, for all but 100% teccos. The killer would be to offer a brick wall mode where you point e.g. you Hologon 15mm at local church gabel, shoot and keyboard H15, a mnomic, the camera does the rest, assuming you can manage a uniform wall, and recall the H15.

Noel
 
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