Lucasnilsson
Member
So this might be a really weird question for some but I have a thought about finding a Leica M4 and then removing as much "features" as possible.
we're talking removing strap lugs, ISO-dial and the frameline-adjustment lever before giving it new vulcanite without the cutouts.
who should I talk about this with?
thanks
/Lucas
we're talking removing strap lugs, ISO-dial and the frameline-adjustment lever before giving it new vulcanite without the cutouts.
who should I talk about this with?
thanks
/Lucas
mfogiel
Veteran
Don't do it, you would have to open the camera, and then you have to calibrate the RF again. besides this, you would destroy any resale value of this body. To give you an idea, I had to pay 450 EUR, just for a repair of a SINGLE LUG in Solms.
thegman
Veteran
Depends what country you're in, but I'm sure someone like DAG could tell you the details.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
If you're in the US, Sherry K can do a pair of lugs for maybe $60. I had my M4 completely overhauled by her a few years ago and she asked me if I wanted new lugs and I said yeah, cause the old ones were starting to rattle around.
Youxin Ye could do a pair of lugs for very little so taking them out then recovering the camera while getting a CLA would run you maybe $200. There is no need to recalibrate anything when working on the body shell. It just slips off and you're good to go. Any good repair shop should be able to do it. Sherry, DAG, Youxin, Essex, Nippon, whomever.
Holding onto the camera after the lugs are gone is a completely different issue unless you use a case but that's another thread entirely.
Phil Forrest
Youxin Ye could do a pair of lugs for very little so taking them out then recovering the camera while getting a CLA would run you maybe $200. There is no need to recalibrate anything when working on the body shell. It just slips off and you're good to go. Any good repair shop should be able to do it. Sherry, DAG, Youxin, Essex, Nippon, whomever.
Holding onto the camera after the lugs are gone is a completely different issue unless you use a case but that's another thread entirely.
Phil Forrest
Livesteamer
Well-known
If you remove the lugs, does that not leave a hole?
Or, buy a good Leica II. Much smaller and no strap lugs! Joe
Or, buy a good Leica II. Much smaller and no strap lugs! Joe
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Perfectly doable. If you feel like it, why not?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
If you like holes, remove the lugs. 
But this mod would take effort and expense to reverse.
As for the ISO reminder and levers:
Removing the ISO dial can be done but it will leave a depression if you just cover it with replacement fake vulcanite. It may be easier to replace the back door with one from an M4-2...the dial on an M4-2 is easy to remove and won't leave a depression with a new covering. Swapping doors takes a second.
If the vulcanite on your M4 is in excellent shape, you might want to obtain another M4 shell instead...one with cracking vulcanite (or none at all.) Then remove the self timer and/or frameline preview and use new covering.
Going this direction would mean you could reverse the mods pretty easily...
But this mod would take effort and expense to reverse.As for the ISO reminder and levers:
Removing the ISO dial can be done but it will leave a depression if you just cover it with replacement fake vulcanite. It may be easier to replace the back door with one from an M4-2...the dial on an M4-2 is easy to remove and won't leave a depression with a new covering. Swapping doors takes a second.
If the vulcanite on your M4 is in excellent shape, you might want to obtain another M4 shell instead...one with cracking vulcanite (or none at all.) Then remove the self timer and/or frameline preview and use new covering.
Going this direction would mean you could reverse the mods pretty easily...
dabick42
Well-known
Isn't there a law forbidding butchery of Leicas ?
If not, there should be... (!)
If not, there should be... (!)
ferider
Veteran
OP, it's your camera, not all cameras are purchased for resale but for use, do what you want ....
After removing the shell, I filled the holes with "Liquid Weld" (an epoxy). Aki Asahi provided a cover sans holes. In my case I wanted permanent 50/90mm framelines in this M3. In your case you might only want to take the frameline lever off (not the whole mechanism), since you might want the frame-line mechanism to continue working. You can find a diagram how the M2 frameline lever is assembled in http://pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf. M4 is identical except for having a different lever.
You can fill lug holes in the same way.
Not sure about the ISO dial - never had it disassembled, you might want to replace the back-door with an M4P door instead.
Roland.
After removing the shell, I filled the holes with "Liquid Weld" (an epoxy). Aki Asahi provided a cover sans holes. In my case I wanted permanent 50/90mm framelines in this M3. In your case you might only want to take the frameline lever off (not the whole mechanism), since you might want the frame-line mechanism to continue working. You can find a diagram how the M2 frameline lever is assembled in http://pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf. M4 is identical except for having a different lever.
You can fill lug holes in the same way.
Not sure about the ISO dial - never had it disassembled, you might want to replace the back-door with an M4P door instead.
Roland.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
No.
Not at all. They are tools, not religious icons.
Even Leica offered this "butchery" of their cameras in the past and will still do it today.
Phil Forrest
icebear
Veteran
dabick42
Well-known
@ Phil...
Did Leitz remove lugs, levers etc. and fill the holes with epoxy ?
Did Leitz remove lugs, levers etc. and fill the holes with epoxy ?
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
They will do anything you ask them to within their ability. Maybe not fill the holes with epoxy as recovering the camera takes care of that issue. I'm not sure what their MO is for such service but if one asked them to braze it shut, I'm pretty sure they would oblige.
Look at all the Barnack Leicas. So many were upgraded to add RF coupling, add flash synch. Few were probably downgraded. Lugs were added, changed, removed. All sorts of things have been done to these cameras by Leica as well as other repair services.
Phil Forrest
Look at all the Barnack Leicas. So many were upgraded to add RF coupling, add flash synch. Few were probably downgraded. Lugs were added, changed, removed. All sorts of things have been done to these cameras by Leica as well as other repair services.
Phil Forrest
ferider
Veteran
No law. Only the NLB club (No Leica Butchery). You either have to own MP, M9P, and Monochrome or at least 14 film Leicas to gain entrance.
BTW, Phil, the cover by itself was not strong enough to fill the holes, IMO. For the strap lugs, I wouldn't mind not filling.
thejameskendall
Established
the lug fell off my M6 where my right hand goes and i have to say it's really comfortable without it. i've taped it up and left it as is at the moment as i quite like it. (i have a tripod mount strap which works pretty well. i'd consider taking the other lug off too but will probably mend the broken one really.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Roland, that's a real pretty M3. But I see you have a 40mm lens on it, not 50mm. Is the full M3 VF closer to the 40mm FoV?OP, it's your camera, not all cameras are purchased for resale but for use, do what you want ....
After removing the shell, I filled the holes with "Liquid Weld" (an epoxy). Aki Asahi provided a cover sans holes. In my case I wanted permanent 50/90mm framelines in this M3. In your case you might only want to take the frameline lever off (not the whole mechanism), since you might want the frame-line mechanism to continue working. You can find a diagram how the M2 frameline lever is assembled in http://pentax-manuals.com/manuals/service/leica_m2_service.pdf. M4 is identical except for having a different lever.
You can fill lug holes in the same way.
Not sure about the ISO dial - never had it disassembled, you might want to replace the back-door with an M4P door instead.
Roland.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Why not just buy a simple camera? There's no point in owning a Leica if you don't want one.
ferider
Veteran
This was made for a 40/75 combo, Godfrey (with Summilux). The additional 20 percent space made cropping to 8x10 easier.
The M3 1:1 finder and 90mm frame-lines are almost ideal for the 75 Summilux (which extends to 84mm at 0.7m min. focus).
Any modification that makes a camera more fun to use is a good modification, IMO. YMMV of course.
Roland.
Vickko
Veteran
Easy to do.
1. lugs. They are riveted in, and can be punched out, leaving a hole. Plug it up with auto metal epoxy and you're done.
2. ISO dial - lift off the leatherette, and I think the later ones were riveted in too. The IIIg was attached by screws, but I think the M4 was riveted. Carefully punch it out. You need to carefully remove the pressure plate to gain access. All easy to do if you examine it carefully.
3. frame-line lever - use a pin tool to remove the lock screw and then take all the rest off. Removing the lever doesn't disable the ability of the lens to trigger the correct lines.
4. self timer - same thing, use a pin tool to take the lever off, then remove all the rest. If you take the body shell off, you can even remove the self timer clockwork, making the camera lighter.
For the holes, cover them up with thin steel, before recovering the body.
When you take the body shell off, you'll need to take the top off, and be careful where the light shields are. Some are tape. Carefully note where they are and replace them. Chasing light leaks is a pain in the butt.
And yes, when you reassemble it all, you should check the RF alignment, but that too is easy.
You can do it yourself, Buy Tomosy's Leica books for hints. Or there are guides to the disassembly of a Leica on the web. It isn't rocket science; just go carefully.
Have fun
1. lugs. They are riveted in, and can be punched out, leaving a hole. Plug it up with auto metal epoxy and you're done.
2. ISO dial - lift off the leatherette, and I think the later ones were riveted in too. The IIIg was attached by screws, but I think the M4 was riveted. Carefully punch it out. You need to carefully remove the pressure plate to gain access. All easy to do if you examine it carefully.
3. frame-line lever - use a pin tool to remove the lock screw and then take all the rest off. Removing the lever doesn't disable the ability of the lens to trigger the correct lines.
4. self timer - same thing, use a pin tool to take the lever off, then remove all the rest. If you take the body shell off, you can even remove the self timer clockwork, making the camera lighter.
For the holes, cover them up with thin steel, before recovering the body.
When you take the body shell off, you'll need to take the top off, and be careful where the light shields are. Some are tape. Carefully note where they are and replace them. Chasing light leaks is a pain in the butt.
And yes, when you reassemble it all, you should check the RF alignment, but that too is easy.
You can do it yourself, Buy Tomosy's Leica books for hints. Or there are guides to the disassembly of a Leica on the web. It isn't rocket science; just go carefully.
Have fun