mooge
Well-known
So I recently bought a Sinar F2 kit to go with the Sinar Vario back I was given a while ago. I've only put one roll (6 frames... ha!) through it, but I thought I'd give some commentary while it's still fresh:
General:
Sinar F2- Monorail 4x5 camera, made in Switzerland.
Intended use: Photos of stuff. Maybe landscapes, maybe portraits. Probably aircraft and jet engines. Definitely race cars.
Format: Primarily 6x12 and hopefully type 100 Polaroids, occasional 4x5 maybe. Hopefully Type 55 if New55 gets up and running.
Useful for: Verticals that don't converge. subject interaction. slowing down.
Sinar F2
Positives:
+ The whole modularity thing is AWESOME. It isn't useful if you only have a small kit, but I think it's really nice that someone sat down and thought everything through, before anything was built.
+ Overall, it's very well designed. Little things like how the extension rails attach, or the coin slots for adjusting the tightening levers.
+ It's pretty rigid, as far as I can tell anyways. The 'two pillar' standard arrangement looks a little sketch but it's alright. Rear standard probably bends back a little if I put the Vario back on it and point it at the sky, but I'm pretty sure it's not really designed for that. It's rigid enough in my books anyways.
+ Lots of room for movements. Too bad I can't figure why they would be necessary.
Negatives:
(-) The camera mount is really tall for some reason. Add to this that my tripod is pretty tall and it also has a tall head on it, the whole combo stands about 130cm tall at the least. kind of annoying.
(-) The camera mount is kinda sketch. Basically, it's a clamp that gets mounted on the tripod; the clamp grips a plastic ring that's keyed for the monorail. What's sketch about it is if you don't tighten it enough, the camera can fall over sideways, but if you overtighten it, I assume you'll be liable to score and generally mess up the plastic ring (which is already scored from similar stupidity). Either way, I'll never stick the camera on the tripod and throw it over my shoulder - that would be sketch. This is my only real gripe about the camera - I really don't like the rail clamp.
Random observations:
- it's not that old - apparently the F2 with separate levers for shift and tilt are from 1992 onwards. So not even '80s.
- There's alot of plastic on the camera. Maybe not surprising since it's from 1992 or newer, but still. Both fine focusing rack and pinions, the rail clamping surfaces, all locking levers... all made of plastic.
- There's almost no engravings on the camera! Tilt and shift scales, all printed. Depth of field and angle scale are both printed, and are losing their markings. Only engraving I can find is the film plane marker.
- There's no serial number anywhere on the camera, as far as I can tell! That's sketch. Maybe mine's a bootleg.
- The mystery hexagonal socket on the front standard seems to have been designed to hold pencils
- Homebrew lens boards seem quite possible
- The lens boards have a satisfying resonance when struck.
- "Modular system"... = instant money hole
- want to pack it up into a backpack? I wouldn't count on it. It is luggable if you hate your life though (it's not that bad, honestly).
Bag bellows:
- Pretty much essential for anything under 100mm, I think
- Try to find a kit with one included - fleabay prices are cringeworthy
- Holes can be patched with "liquid electrical tape"
210mm Sinaron:
(+) I like leaf shutters - but this Copal 1 is just too cool. Especially the thing to open/close the shutter for viewing.
(-) If you try to put a filter on it, the filter glass touches the front element before it threads in fully. I think this is incredibly stupid.
- 210mm seems uselessly long for me - especially on 6x12. I'll probably try to swap it for something wider.
-The other thing about a 210mm lens is that it pretty much needs an extension rail for anything closer than 10m or so, and that's with both standards cranked out. Even with the 15cm extension rail, min focus is about 80cm, but I guess magnification is pretty high.
Zeiss Tessar 105 f/3,5:
- supposed to be for a Linhof 6x9 camera, but I didn't really want to use it (back's broken, no groundglass... it's just big, heavy and cumbersome - the procedure for changing lenses is ridiculous... and there's no darkslide so I can't even do that)
- Synchro-Compur required a long soak in lighter fluid and alot of graphite powder before it worked
- Covers 6x12! With some movements, even! Nice 35mm ish horizontal field of view on 6x12.
- There's a little knob on the synchro compur that arrests the shutter - press this and then trip the shutter, and there's your 'T' setting.
Sinar Vario (multiformat back) :
- for those that don't know, it's basically a 120 back that does 6x4,5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12. Can't change formats mid roll though, but the later Sinar Zoom can.
- Cassette loading system - load roll into a cassette, swap cassettes into back. Not much help if you only have one cassette and the loading process is pretty slow and complicated anyways.
- It's pretty heavy and bulky. Can be crammed under the spring back with not much difficulty.
- Weird "measuring tape" style film counter. Doesn't show you how many frames are left, but rather how much (length) film is left.
- Sometimes the counter makes weird noises and skips... so far (1 roll... ha!) no overlaps.
- Apparently really good for film flatness, due to the straight film path.
- mine came with a variable format mask that's got rack and pinion gearing to move two framing bars with one lever. How's that for over-engineering?
Sinar aluminum box:
- it's called the 'accessory case' in one of the sinar brochures... fits my F2 and the vario back and a spare rail and some junk and that's it- so if I want to bring the 105 and the 210 I can't fit everything into the case - no room for the 210 or the regular bellows. That's kind of a joke.
- There's plastic tabs to suspend the camera in the case upside-down from the rail, but my case is missing one of the tabs and my camera is missing one of the end caps for the rail. That's also a bit of a joke.
Other commentary:
- Remember to account for light falloff with close focus!
- Being able to change the plane of focus is pretty cool
- You will be asked (by pretty much everyone) if you have a flash gun to go with the camera
- as usual, buying a kit is cheaper than buying bits separately; try to find a good kit if you're starting out
- measuring tape and level seem largely unnecessary to me - levelness can be checked on the ground glass most of the time, bellows extension factor can be accounted for by fudge factors
Bottom line:
I'm pretty glad I bought it. I dunno.
General:
Sinar F2- Monorail 4x5 camera, made in Switzerland.
Intended use: Photos of stuff. Maybe landscapes, maybe portraits. Probably aircraft and jet engines. Definitely race cars.
Format: Primarily 6x12 and hopefully type 100 Polaroids, occasional 4x5 maybe. Hopefully Type 55 if New55 gets up and running.
Useful for: Verticals that don't converge. subject interaction. slowing down.
Sinar F2
Positives:
+ The whole modularity thing is AWESOME. It isn't useful if you only have a small kit, but I think it's really nice that someone sat down and thought everything through, before anything was built.
+ Overall, it's very well designed. Little things like how the extension rails attach, or the coin slots for adjusting the tightening levers.
+ It's pretty rigid, as far as I can tell anyways. The 'two pillar' standard arrangement looks a little sketch but it's alright. Rear standard probably bends back a little if I put the Vario back on it and point it at the sky, but I'm pretty sure it's not really designed for that. It's rigid enough in my books anyways.
+ Lots of room for movements. Too bad I can't figure why they would be necessary.
Negatives:
(-) The camera mount is really tall for some reason. Add to this that my tripod is pretty tall and it also has a tall head on it, the whole combo stands about 130cm tall at the least. kind of annoying.
(-) The camera mount is kinda sketch. Basically, it's a clamp that gets mounted on the tripod; the clamp grips a plastic ring that's keyed for the monorail. What's sketch about it is if you don't tighten it enough, the camera can fall over sideways, but if you overtighten it, I assume you'll be liable to score and generally mess up the plastic ring (which is already scored from similar stupidity). Either way, I'll never stick the camera on the tripod and throw it over my shoulder - that would be sketch. This is my only real gripe about the camera - I really don't like the rail clamp.
Random observations:
- it's not that old - apparently the F2 with separate levers for shift and tilt are from 1992 onwards. So not even '80s.
- There's alot of plastic on the camera. Maybe not surprising since it's from 1992 or newer, but still. Both fine focusing rack and pinions, the rail clamping surfaces, all locking levers... all made of plastic.
- There's almost no engravings on the camera! Tilt and shift scales, all printed. Depth of field and angle scale are both printed, and are losing their markings. Only engraving I can find is the film plane marker.
- There's no serial number anywhere on the camera, as far as I can tell! That's sketch. Maybe mine's a bootleg.
- The mystery hexagonal socket on the front standard seems to have been designed to hold pencils
- Homebrew lens boards seem quite possible
- The lens boards have a satisfying resonance when struck.
- "Modular system"... = instant money hole
- want to pack it up into a backpack? I wouldn't count on it. It is luggable if you hate your life though (it's not that bad, honestly).
Bag bellows:
- Pretty much essential for anything under 100mm, I think
- Try to find a kit with one included - fleabay prices are cringeworthy
- Holes can be patched with "liquid electrical tape"
210mm Sinaron:
(+) I like leaf shutters - but this Copal 1 is just too cool. Especially the thing to open/close the shutter for viewing.
(-) If you try to put a filter on it, the filter glass touches the front element before it threads in fully. I think this is incredibly stupid.
- 210mm seems uselessly long for me - especially on 6x12. I'll probably try to swap it for something wider.
-The other thing about a 210mm lens is that it pretty much needs an extension rail for anything closer than 10m or so, and that's with both standards cranked out. Even with the 15cm extension rail, min focus is about 80cm, but I guess magnification is pretty high.
Zeiss Tessar 105 f/3,5:
- supposed to be for a Linhof 6x9 camera, but I didn't really want to use it (back's broken, no groundglass... it's just big, heavy and cumbersome - the procedure for changing lenses is ridiculous... and there's no darkslide so I can't even do that)
- Synchro-Compur required a long soak in lighter fluid and alot of graphite powder before it worked
- Covers 6x12! With some movements, even! Nice 35mm ish horizontal field of view on 6x12.
- There's a little knob on the synchro compur that arrests the shutter - press this and then trip the shutter, and there's your 'T' setting.
Sinar Vario (multiformat back) :
- for those that don't know, it's basically a 120 back that does 6x4,5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12. Can't change formats mid roll though, but the later Sinar Zoom can.
- Cassette loading system - load roll into a cassette, swap cassettes into back. Not much help if you only have one cassette and the loading process is pretty slow and complicated anyways.
- It's pretty heavy and bulky. Can be crammed under the spring back with not much difficulty.
- Weird "measuring tape" style film counter. Doesn't show you how many frames are left, but rather how much (length) film is left.
- Sometimes the counter makes weird noises and skips... so far (1 roll... ha!) no overlaps.
- Apparently really good for film flatness, due to the straight film path.
- mine came with a variable format mask that's got rack and pinion gearing to move two framing bars with one lever. How's that for over-engineering?
Sinar aluminum box:
- it's called the 'accessory case' in one of the sinar brochures... fits my F2 and the vario back and a spare rail and some junk and that's it- so if I want to bring the 105 and the 210 I can't fit everything into the case - no room for the 210 or the regular bellows. That's kind of a joke.
- There's plastic tabs to suspend the camera in the case upside-down from the rail, but my case is missing one of the tabs and my camera is missing one of the end caps for the rail. That's also a bit of a joke.
Other commentary:
- Remember to account for light falloff with close focus!
- Being able to change the plane of focus is pretty cool
- You will be asked (by pretty much everyone) if you have a flash gun to go with the camera
- as usual, buying a kit is cheaper than buying bits separately; try to find a good kit if you're starting out
- measuring tape and level seem largely unnecessary to me - levelness can be checked on the ground glass most of the time, bellows extension factor can be accounted for by fudge factors
Bottom line:
I'm pretty glad I bought it. I dunno.
lukitas
second hand noob
you're doing great.
x-ray
Veteran
The F wasn't a beginners camera and wasn't designed to backpack. It's a studio camera or for location advertising, industrial and architectural work. The F series was the economy model. If you wanted the ultimate in professional equipment you bought the P / P2. So a had it's own head designed for their cameras. It reduced the heights of the package substantially.
It's been years since I used a P2 but think it had more metal and more engraving but can't really remember. I bought a new Sinar Norma in 1969 and used it through my career and still use it. Sinar cameras are designed to last a lifetime with no problems and under heavy use. I used mine very heavily and can't even guess how many thousands of sheets I shot through it plus I carried it all over the northern hemisphere on jobs during that time. In it's metal case it's heavy but wasn't unmanigable. Throw in several 50 sheet boxes of film, 40-50 holders, heavy duty tripod, 6-8k watt seconds of strobes, a dozen heads, lenses and meters and you have a heavy package.
My Norma after heavy use is as tight and precise as the day I bought it in 1969. I've not even had to replace the bellows.
Anyone wanting portability needs a flatbed camera like a Ebony or Linhof Technika. I also owned a Master Technika I bought new in 1974 and used it on location when wide lenses weren't needed. It's really not a great wide angle camera but is very convenient for medium short to long lenses. Linhof cameras have no markings at all.
My 8x10 camera since 1972 has been a Deardorff V8 and is as basic as you can get. No markings of any sort.
Markings aren't something you really need if you understand how to use the camera and movements.
It's been years since I used a P2 but think it had more metal and more engraving but can't really remember. I bought a new Sinar Norma in 1969 and used it through my career and still use it. Sinar cameras are designed to last a lifetime with no problems and under heavy use. I used mine very heavily and can't even guess how many thousands of sheets I shot through it plus I carried it all over the northern hemisphere on jobs during that time. In it's metal case it's heavy but wasn't unmanigable. Throw in several 50 sheet boxes of film, 40-50 holders, heavy duty tripod, 6-8k watt seconds of strobes, a dozen heads, lenses and meters and you have a heavy package.
My Norma after heavy use is as tight and precise as the day I bought it in 1969. I've not even had to replace the bellows.
Anyone wanting portability needs a flatbed camera like a Ebony or Linhof Technika. I also owned a Master Technika I bought new in 1974 and used it on location when wide lenses weren't needed. It's really not a great wide angle camera but is very convenient for medium short to long lenses. Linhof cameras have no markings at all.
My 8x10 camera since 1972 has been a Deardorff V8 and is as basic as you can get. No markings of any sort.
Markings aren't something you really need if you understand how to use the camera and movements.