Since Epson RD-1 refurb gone: RD-2 coming?

[jim_buchanan]

Having saved up and sold a few cameras, to buy a RD-1 at a reasonable price, they're gone! At least, the Epson refurbs for less than $1,550US. I called and they said 15 units went instantly. eBay stores at $2200US still available, I guess.

How would I know if a RD-2 was coming? Anyone in the know?

To buy or wait...

 

[triplefinger]

the cam is discontinued as far as i know

 

[Didier]

There has never been an official statement whether the camera is discontinued or not. The sticking point is that a R-D2 should be improved in several aspects; and I have certain doubts if Epson is able to overcome these obstacles successfully:

- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control
- Better quality control


Did I mention:
- Better quality control?

Another question is if Cosina is willed to participate at such an adventure again. They got bashed because the RF alignment issues even if it's not their fault that Epson did a bad assemble job. I believe Cosina prefers to continue it's digital RF collaboration with Zeiss, not Epson.

Didier

 

[iml]

The daft thing is that at its current price (£1400 in the UK), the R-D1s looks very attractive in a market with only one competitor, the M8 (£3000). If only Epson had some sense they could probably do quite well with an R-D2 if they were prepared to support it. I'm sure the M8 will grow the overall potential demand for cheaper digital RFs. Maybe Cosina will come up with something.

Ian

 

[Didier]

The daft thing is that at its current price (£1400 in the UK), the R-D1s looks very attractive in a market with only one competitor, the M8 (£3000). If only Epson had some sense they could probably do quite well with an R-D2 if they were prepared to support it. I'm sure the M8 will grow the overall potential demand for cheaper digital RFs.

Ian,

It's true there's a potential. Possible improvements: More pixels (8MP at least) (eventually bigger than APS-C), the newly announced CV 21-50 wide rangefinder, an inbuilt grip for larger battery size; just to mention a few.

But I don't believe that theiy're able to improve QC and support. And using a bigger sensor would immediately raise the price, as well as introducing a longer baselength which would require a completely new body design. It's a big economical challenge in such a small niche - and I believe Zeiss/Cosina will produce the next DRF as they have the better cards in the hands.

Didier

 

[Socke]

As far as I know Kobayashi san doesn't like digital as a Cosina product, if not at all, and Zeiss doesn't believe in current sensor technology. So I would be more than surprised to see a digital RF either as Zeiss Ikon or as Voigtländer in the next two to three years.

 

[sunsworth]

As far as I know Kobayashi san doesn't like digital as a Cosina product, if not at all, and Zeiss doesn't believe in current sensor technology. So I would be more than surprised to see a digital RF either as Zeiss Ikon or as Voigtländer in the next two to three years.

He may not like it, but I think they have to offer a digital body if they want to stay in the camera market (as opposed to lenses) for more than the next few years.

 

[mountainrivera]

Epson's plan for the r-d2 is to not ship as many defective cameras and for those the out of alignmnet FR patch will be much less severe than that of the R-D1.

 

[Terao]

Still think CV should hit the market with a bayerless 6mp B&W-only camera. Big improvement in resolution over a Bayer camera, easier to develop, simpler with less to go wrong. The market is calling out for some digital innovation (look at the reaction from non-Leica fanboys to the M8). Build some duo and quadtone profiles into the camera along with digital contrast filters and I reckon you'd capture a few SLR people as well. I wish Nikon would do it in that space - make an DM3A if you like...

 

[scho]

Discontinued?

Discontinued?

If the R-D1 is truly discontinued why does Epson USA still list it as "out of stock" while stores in the UK and Germany sell new ones at a discounted price? The few retail stores in the USA that still sell the R-D1 all charge full list price (3K).

 

[c.poulton]

Still think CV should hit the market with a bayerless 6mp B&W-only camera. Big improvement in resolution over a Bayer camera, easier to develop, simpler with less to go wrong. The market is calling out for some digital innovation (look at the reaction from non-Leica fanboys to the M8). Build some duo and quadtone profiles into the camera along with digital contrast filters and I reckon you'd capture a few SLR people as well. I wish Nikon would do it in that space - make an DM3A if you like...

That's a very interesting idea, I might even be tempted by that one?

 

[anselwannab]

I agree with Terao, a B&W with good noise characteristcs would be a great camera. SLR or RF. I assume your DM3A is an SLR after the FM3a?

Since most RF is B&W (just look at the random pics on the header page), I don't see it as a drawback. In fact if Zeiss is so proud of their lens resolution, maybe a B&W sensor would allow their marketing people to say that RGB sensors can't cut it right now, but a B&W sensor can exploit their lenses.

dRF is a niche market, we're not talking about dRebels here.

Who knows, maybe Mr. K could swallow the idea of a B&W sensor.

My thought is that if one of the smaller brands, like Sony, Sigma, or p-sonic want to get some street-cred, they could come out with a dRF. That is what Epson tried to do, but the marketing wasn't there. How about a dS3 from Nikon?

I have a 20D, but Canon I think has really dropped the ball lately. Their penance should be a dP RF with a FF sensor.

If refurb'd RD-1 are $1500, I wonder where the used market will be in a year?

Mark

 

[triplefinger]

a friend of mine who works at epson, said it was discontinued.

 

[ZeissFan]

The market for a digital rangefinder is small. The market for a b/w-only digital rangefinder is so small to ensure that it will probably not be built. Especially when you can shoot color and convert it to b/w, which is good enough for most people. Not the best, but good enough. But isn't that the current state of digital and film? Good enough?

 

[anselwannab]

If a B&W sensor wouldn't bring more that a converted color pics, I agree. But, if it had better noise and resolution than a converted pic, now that would be something. Just hit the refresh on the home page and see that something like three quarters of the pics are B&W, and I'd have to say an even higher precentage of "serious" shots. RF people are most people. Zeiss came out with manual focus lenses for Nikons, that has to be a pretty niche market, since there are a lot of used lenses out there anyway.

Does anyone have any kinds of numbers on sales of CV, Zeiss, and Leica for bodies and lenses?

A dRF , except for Leica, is as much of a marketing device as it is a actal product. Chevy makes the Corvette to try to put some pananche in the showroom for the little cars.

Mark

 

[Trius]

Whether the R-D1 is "discontinued" or not, it was effectively discontinued from day one as Epson stated it would have a total production run of 10,000 units. Given how cameras are produced, I'd say that run is completed and whatever stocks Epson has will be into the distrubtion channel soon enough, if they are not already.

I agree that it is not likely Epson will take up an R-D2 project. It would have to have support from a senior executive, then budget from the board, to move forward. And that budget would have to include funding to improve QC and support. Even if they don't really care that much about RF photography, they certainly know the issues with the R-D1 have not been good for PR.

I expect Zeiss will be the next serious d-RF manufacturer. Whether they use Cosina to build or someone else is anyone's guess, IMO.

 

[AusDLK]

>I thought that the RF was built by Cosina and that RF patch misalignments
>have been experienced not only by R-D1's but by Bessa's users as well.

Indeed. RF alignment problems are a common problems with Bessa. It happened to one that I owned...

 

[fgianni]

With all the problems that plagued the RD-1, I think Epson executives will have a fit is someone mentions to them the possibilty of an RD-2.

Actually I think if you work for Epson you have to put money in the swearbox if you mention the RD-1 😀