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Here we go again....you non-civilized countries should be adopting the 30-day vacation law (actually it is 24 here but most companies offer 30). It is the perfect sustainable plan. You take your annual 3-week summer vacation with the family and around two weeks during Christmas. In between you take some extended trips so that you can see the world and live your life as a healthy happy human being.

Germany will not adopt your weak, non-civilized standard because it is all wrong. I know managers in the USA who have 30 days vacation but most of the workers have between 5 and 10. It is wrong and unfair. If you are going to make a company rich with your labour, you deserve more compensated time off. Period.

End of story.
 
I believe that French and German workers have the right to have their well earned holidays. The only thing is that if the Zeiss Ikon was fully produced in Germany, maybe some of the extremist Leica praisers would be keeping a lower profile.

I don't see as well why the fact of working more would make prices go down. Remember that Germany is a very highly industrialized high-tech society, and that living standards are very high as well. And that the rangefinder market is a niche market. It's not like producing DVD players or keyboards...

Also keep in mind that our countries have very advanced social care systems, and these systems have a cost. And most of us are happy that such things exist. :)

P.S. : I'm french, messieurs, :p that's why I also quote France even if our industry is not really oriented towards photography :p
 
Huck Finn? Of Course I would......But the prices would go up on everything and I'm disappointed at the fact that the IKON is not made in Germany.
Someone has to pay for 47 paid holidays.........Huck? .....It's the consumer who pays for it....so the Germans just ship their ZEISS Scheisse to Japan to produce.

WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG

At the prices you are charging for your Zeiss IKON, the consumer is not going to buy it if it's made in Japan. Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.
 
I for one will be it whether it's made in Japan or Germany. If it is indeed a Zeiss product, then I don't care where they make it as long as it is made well, meets my needs, and I can pay the price.

Getting on a high horse about price vs. country of manufacture is silly, IMO. If it's that important, then go get a job at Carl Zeiss AG, rise to the top of product marketing or Sr. executive management, then make your statement by changing things.

Earl
 
XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.
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I'm not following the logic here. The Konica Hexar RF was made in Japan. The body retailed for about $1100 in 1999, which would be equivalent to about $1300 in today's dollars, given even the modest inflation we've had over the past 6 years. But then you add in the fact that the value of the dollar vs overseas currencies has eroded oaver the past 6 years, so the equivalent would be more like $1600, which is right where the ZI is selling in the states. I don't know how you arrived at your $900 - $1000 figure.

Another way to look at it is the fact that 1999 was the high water mark for film sales, so Konica could base its selling price on a fairly high anticipated sales figure, which is used to determine how overhead costs like R&D, administration, etc. will be spread out & paid for. In contrast, film has become a niche market 6 years later & RF cameras are a niche within that niche market. Zeiss can anticipate far lower sales than Konica could 6 years ago, further driving up the selling price.

Finally, consider this. The Cosina made Bessa R2/3A sells for $560, but to have it comparably equipped to a ZI, you have to add in the cost of a 28 auxiliary viewfinder at $145, bringing the price up to $705. By saying that the ZI should sell for $900 - $1000, you are saying that for an extra $200 - $300, you can add a longer RF baseline, larger viewfinder, more sensitive metering, automatic frameline selection, permanent AE lock, exposure compensation in 1/3 stop increments, frameline ID info in VF, improved rear door lock, AND improved quality control to Zeiss standards. If Cosina could have done this to the price point you suggest, I think they would have done so without Carl Zeiss AG.

Huck
 
XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG
Click to expand...

Why the yelling?
 
"WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG"

I would venture to say that you are not their intended buyer. So I don't think they'll feel bad if you don't buy the camera.
 
My mother was born in Berlin. If she were alive today and heard the Ikon wasn't made in Germany, she would croak, even though her last name was Rosenburg. :)
 
XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
Huck Finn? Of Course I would......But the prices would go up on everything and I'm disappointed at the fact that the IKON is not made in Germany.
Someone has to pay for 47 paid holidays.........Huck? .....It's the consumer who pays for it....so the Germans just ship their ZEISS Scheisse to Japan to produce.

WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped.

THIS MESSAGE IS FOR
DR. DIETER KURZ (President and Ceo)
DR. NORBERT GORNY
DR. MICHAEL KASCHKE
CARL ZEISS AG

At the prices you are charging for your Zeiss IKON, the consumer is not going to buy it if it's made in Japan. Since it's made in Japan, the body should be no higher then $900-$1000.
Click to expand...



What a bullsh.................

Zeis Ikon is a german brand it is engineerd in Germany. It is produced at a place were they can do it the best (for a given price). And they produce it were they expect to sell te most. THAT'S JUST CLEVER.
And to ease the worried minds quality control meets Zeiss Standards
 
Frank, I think a lot of our descendants would faint to see what transpires in the world today. Making a camera in Japan certainly falls under the "so what" category. Anyway, no one seemed to have a problem buying lenses made in Japan for the Yashica/Kyocera Contax. What's the problem here?
 
Thanks & great job!!

Thanks & great job!!

Mike,

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with us. I am most impressed with the site/blog and your dedication to it...It has prooved very interesting, great fun and quite helpfull. If I wasnt allready expecting arrival of my new Leica M7 next week (I found your site/postings after my purchase) I would consider this beauty very seriously...

may I just suggest a few things??

- For those of us who return frecuently to your site to see if there´s any new stuff, maybe indicate in the main page the date of the last update...

- Considering the success of your publication, maybe add a "visitors-book" or "comments" page?

Keep it coming and thanks once more.

best regards, Erik.
 
I had a comments section on my other page for the Voigtlander Bessa-R. It turned into a spam fest for porn sites.

I might try it again using some spam fighter technology -- requiring users to type in the phrase.

I can try to tag new content. I have some ideas. I always have some ideas.
 
"WOULD YOU BUY A PORSCHE MADE IN JAPAN?
NEITHER WILL I......AND I WILL NOT BUY A ZEISS IKON MADE IN JAPAN....unless the price dropped."

Your arguement in these few lines proves your own contradiction. It comes down to your value of orgin of manufacture. If you were principled enough as you say about Porsche no price decrease would make up for it. BUT you clearly are prepared to give up the made in Germany tag for a price. Just that you place more value in it being made in Germany than most but you cant speak for everyone. I dont see Americans demanding their expensive Nike shoes not being made in Asian Sweat shops and offer to pay more money for local maufacture! The market seems to dissagree with you. Take the Zeiss 85mm Sonnar for example its the same price as Leicas 90mm both made in Germany. Would you pay Leica M7 prices for the Zeiss Ikon just so the very same camera has made in Germany on the base? No I bet you wouldnt.

I find your demand for the Germans to have less free time in the lives just so you can also have that Germany Label at a lower cost proof of how laughable your views are. I would like the USA to spend less on war and its miltary budget and put an end to world poverty. But Im Australian my vote doesnt count there. If the only way I could aford a Porsche is for it to be made in Japan, that wouldnt bother me. Leica gets some of its lenses made in Japan too. My country loyalty is usually dependant on human rights issues, not for any perceived pose value. Not once has anyone I know taken my camera to inspect where it was made on the bottom.

Leica moved its Binocular manufacture to Portugal, Zeiss to Hungry. Strangely enough its the major markets like the USA that demand everything cheaper force the regional change to save on labour costs but then complain things arent german made, its all quite odd! My favourite camera is the Minolta CLE and I am thankfull it was made in Japan. In 1980 Leica wasnt even offering an M mount camera with built in light meter let alone aperture priority auto. I think the Japanese taught the Germans alot about electronics as they did to the Japanese about optics in the early days. The student becomes the teacher. Thats Globalization and Innovation.

PS "I think I'll stick to my Contax G2............EVERYTHING MADE IN GERMANY IS GREAT" Zeiss owns the Contax name and leases it out, they were made in Japan too. They werent as cheap as they are now when they first came out either, how do you stubstanciate the made in Japan Logo on your camera base? A German camera manufacturer making that soffisticated AF and exposure system in Germany??? Boy that disaster would have ruined their reputation in one swoop!
 
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Hi Joel. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..................my contax g2 is probably much better then the Ikon......at half the price.

You are Australian....and a good Ally of the Americans. Quit Whining.
 
XXXGRAPENUTSXXX said:
Hi Joel. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..................my contax g2 is probably much better then the Ikon......at half the price.

You are Australian....and a good Ally of the Americans. Quit Whining.
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What a thoughtful reply. A real positive contribution to the conversation. :rolleyes:
 
Palaeoboy said:
I would like the USA to spend less on war and its miltary budget and put an end to world poverty. But Im Australian my vote doesnt count there.

My country loyalty is usually dependant on human rights issues
Click to expand...

I agree with both of your points, Joel. I live in America, but sadly, my vote doesn't seem to count either. :mad:

Huck
 
Palaeoboy said:
A German camera manufacturer making that soffisticated AF and exposure system in Germany??? Boy that disaster would have ruined their reputation in one swoop!
Click to expand...

The Rolleiflex 6008 AF has been available for several years now: http://www.sl66.com/slx/6008af.htm

Except for that, Paleo, you're largely correct. Just don't waste your time in feeding the trolls and give them what they want. :eek:
 
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