I was referring to the niche that can most afford the expense of the floating lens block technology, as opposed to any particular lens; the page does reference cinema extensively.
Skyllaney Bertele FLB Coming Soon!
- Thread starter Miles.
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Freakscene
Obscure member
Ok, understood, sorry, that’s not how I took your comment. Appreciate the clarification. This is an elegant solution for a particular lens with a lot of focus shift, but there are better ways to manage focus breathing than designing lenses with a lot of residual spherical and pupil aberrations and then putting them into very complex mechanical housings. It’s easier and cheaper to design lenses to be telecentric enough that they don’t breathe.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Speaking only for myself, we are lucky to have one of the great Sonnar experts right here on the board. And that Brian has been involved deeply with Chris, and Hamish, on this is just great as there are three Sonnar experts right there. And we have other Sonnar folks right here on the board as historians and technicians. Strange when one considers that this is a Leica M-body focused board that non-Leica lenses get this much attention and have caused such an accumulation of knowledge and talent. Lucky us, lucky me.
Setting price aside, it is a rare opportunity to have these FLB's offered. Granted, I am a rank hack and tyro, but for me the Sonnars work very well. First I like the retro lenses in how they "see." Thypoch and LLL have made some nice retros. I have one Leica lens only. It is supposed to be very good and often is. But I prefer the SBS and the Sonnars for their romance or whatever you want to call it. The Summicron 43mm APO is color accurate and sharp without being annoying but it just does not have the retro magic that I like. The Q3 43 is that B+ student, really good but not great. An M9 with the SBS has that something. Yes, no IBIS, no autofocus, no EVF, but what a nice image.
So my prejudice remains with the retros. I am pretty sure that the FLB is the end of the line for lens purchases. And what a nice stopping place.
Setting price aside, it is a rare opportunity to have these FLB's offered. Granted, I am a rank hack and tyro, but for me the Sonnars work very well. First I like the retro lenses in how they "see." Thypoch and LLL have made some nice retros. I have one Leica lens only. It is supposed to be very good and often is. But I prefer the SBS and the Sonnars for their romance or whatever you want to call it. The Summicron 43mm APO is color accurate and sharp without being annoying but it just does not have the retro magic that I like. The Q3 43 is that B+ student, really good but not great. An M9 with the SBS has that something. Yes, no IBIS, no autofocus, no EVF, but what a nice image.
So my prejudice remains with the retros. I am pretty sure that the FLB is the end of the line for lens purchases. And what a nice stopping place.
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wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
Tip it to both Chris and Brian, I have a feeling 🙂
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
I am very glad to have my retros as well, though I honestly think I find myself wishing I actually had real money for once - more to offer Patronage, in the old sense, to Skyllaney as well as to enjoy one of these lenses.
This is a very good thing for the photography world in general, even if few understand it just yet.
This is a very good thing for the photography world in general, even if few understand it just yet.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I am grateful to have had some extra cash around to get the FLB not just as a good lens but to do what I can for Skyllaney. Even with my limited understanding it seems the FLB is a master stroke in lens design. And the "tip of the hat" to Chris was for his releasing the information to the public so that any lensmaker could use it. Yes, kudos are due to both Chris and Brian. These two fellows have brought the Sonnar maybe as far as it can be brought. Any further improvement would seem to be both minimal and quite difficult. As little as I know I can only guess, but what is left to make this design better?
I bet that these two wizards have refined the glass as much as it can be reasonably done. The coatings work nicely, in my opinion, as the colors are truly edible. I really like them. Yes, I am lucky in lenses.
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Chris was very careful to hold to the type of glass used in 1934 and "prescription" for the original design, to recreate the Sonnar. The manufacturing techniques and lens coatings are all modern.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
It reminds me why my 1937 50/2 Sonnar is ultimately my favorite lens even if it is uncoated 😉
Joerg
Dilettant
I am very glad that Zeiss lenses get their time in the spotlight.
Leica bodies and Zeiss lenses are my favorite combos.
And hat off for Chris and team for all the great engineering and conversions
Best
Leica bodies and Zeiss lenses are my favorite combos.
And hat off for Chris and team for all the great engineering and conversions
Best
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
Actually, reading through more of the various bits, I am curious - was there any optical changes between the '34 design they're using and what Zeiss used in the collapsible housing?
No- the 1934 design is what was used in the 5cm F2 collapsibles, and the later Rigid Sonnars with 40.5mm filters threads.
wlewisiii
Just another hotel clerk
That's what I thought I understood but wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding something along the way. So, my comment about my 37 really is very appropriate 🙂 So nice to have such a clean copy of that lens and to have a good way to use it with both film and digital cameras.
Rollin
Member
I found the new page on the lens a good read as has a lot of interesting and historical info, and even touches on design of other lenses. It is different than the previous linked white paper. As well as a bit about they used a reverse slope RF cam and the advantage of m-mount over LTM for this lens:
omnarlenses.com
Omnar Bertele 5cm f/2 MC FLB - Omnar Lenses
omnarlenses.com
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I'd like to see Chris get a patent for the floating lens block.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Chris has already released the detailed plans for public use.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
From my limited knowledge on this subject, I know a fellow who patented an audio technique which transformed recording. Nice engineering. He was sued by a huge equipment manufacturer who wanted the technique but not the royalties. They told him that he did not have enough money to defend the patent in court. He didn't. So, having a patent is not always enough. I cannot say what motivated Chris in his releasing the way he made the FLB lens work. From limited knowledge again I would bet a mortgage payment that it is both sophisticated and brilliant. And maybe difficult to do.
For me, bottom line is that this fellow has solved the bugaboo of the Sonnar: focus shift. Maybe I am mistaken but I believe this technique can be applied to other lens prescriptions. I am heavily biased in favor of Sonnars for the color, accuracy and "soul." I have only one Leica lens, the 43mm on the Q3 43. It is sharp and accurate but it just does not have that magic I find in Sonnars. The SBS is lovely with great color and it does skin tones so very well, but has that focus shift. I am grateful that I am on the list of FLB purchasers from this limited run. I am very lucky and promise to shoot the hell out of it, if it will fit on an M9. ;o) I guess it will.
And Chris is a prime example of just how dangerous a single driven and brilliant person can be. Herr Doktor Bertele was smart, really smart. But it has taken almost a century for someone smart, really smart, to shoot that last bug. Take a bow, Chris.
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one can put the design in the public domain but still own a patent, but then it wouldn't make much economic sense to spend the money on the patent attorneys, filings, etc. if one isn't going to charge for a license.
it is true, a patent is only protectable if you have the budget to do so.
it is true, a patent is only protectable if you have the budget to do so.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I know nothing of this other than what that fellow told me, and supplied the patent papers to show he was not BS'ing. He's a great guy and has been brilliant in other areas of audio. I'd bet that Chris has done exactly what you have outlined, held the patent but released it to the public domain. In my pinhead selfish world it means I'm gonna get a great lens. ;o)
I have a bit of experience protecting patents, trademarks, and copyright (mine) in court.
The key to protecting any of these is to have a large bank account! 😀
The key to protecting any of these is to have a large bank account! 😀
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
Hey! Way cool. I'm working on something you may be able to help with. It's kind of circular and has a thing that goes through the center. I believe it can be incorporated into many devices but I really want to protect this. ;o)
Thread hijack! Ludwig Bemelmans. He wrote much. He wrote of visiting a strange reclusive uncle in Switzerland, the fellow lived off alone in a remote valley. And this uncle trusted no one, a real hermit, but he did trust Ludwig. And Ludwig was there one time and the uncle drew him out slowly about ideas he had had and thoughts he had had and so on. And then he swore Ludwig to secrecy and took him into a room where there was something under a canvas cover on a table. Again cautioning Ludwig to keep this a secret the uncle drew off the canvas and revealed a strange machine with a bunch of buttons across the front of it. A really weird machine of no obvious purpose. Then with a gleam in his eye like in Back to the Future the uncle approaches this weird machine and presses one of the numerous buttons. Slowly from within the depths of the machine a small lever appeared and struck a piece of paper leaving behind the imprint of the letter "a". In his isolation he had invented a typewriter, about 50 years late. ;o) Bemelmans wrote some fabulous stories like this one and his time in the hotel business in NY, and also the wonderful children's series, Madeline.