Slide Film: How do you avoid blown highlights?

[parasko]

Hi all,

I need a refresher on metering when using slide film to avoid blown highlights. I know everyone says 'expose for the highlights' but what does this mean? Do you meter for the mid-tones or for the highlights?

If I set the camera to +.5 EV compensation and meter for the highlights will this do the trick?

FWIW, I am using a Leica M7 hand-held so no room for bracketing and I'm using the camera's meter. Film is Provia 100F and 400x.

Any advice?

 

[B.J.Scharp]

Meter the brightest points and add two stops to that.

 

[wilonstott]

I've read David Alan Harvey always meters the brightest part of the scene--hence the blocked-up-shadow look of a lot of his photos.

Easiest thing is to use an incident meter (mine is a Gossen Digisix) because they are keyed to highlights. Also, watch the contrast in the scenes you shoot--understand what the film latitude can cover, and what it can't.

 

[parasko]

Aren't 2 stops too many? Won't the shadows completely block up?

I thought if I add 1/2 stop (or 1 stop max), this would be a sensible conservative approach. What do you think?

Meter the brightest points and add two stops to that.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go where they go.

 

[jsrockit]

Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go where they go.

I have to agree with this as a general rule. Digital too.

 

[parasko]

Thanks but as I said in my original question, unfortunately statements like this aren't helpful. How do you meter? What do you meter for? etc etc.

Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go where they go.

 

[raid]

I start out by measuring from the most important portion of the frame, then follow up by modifying the exposure to control the highlights. Underexposing usually works better than over exposing with slide film. I used for over 20 years only slow speed slide film in photography, and I hardly lever lost frames due to incorrect exposure. I use a spotmeter at all times. With time, you build up a mental spotmeter in your mind. Use it.

If you expose forr snow [main subject] in direct sunlight, this differs from taking a photo of a small [darker] animal in the same snow scene.

With people, meter the face,and let the rest of the frame fall into place. With a scenic view, scan with your eyes or a spotmeter the different portions of the scene. Always keep on eye on a "neutral grey" portion in this scene [such as blue sky or green trees], and use that exposure to decide whether the rest of the scene is above and some below that light level.

Depending on your skin tone, take a reading from the back of your hand and adjust exposure accordingly.

 

[jsrockit]

Thanks but as I said in my original question, unfortunately statements like this aren't helpful. How do you meter? What do you meter for? etc etc.

I think you are overthinking it... it is as simple as pointing your meter at the brightest part of the photo and metering. Any adjustments after that are going to come through experience. Personally I wouldn't dial in + anything... perhaps - ... why don't you just waste a roll trying different combos until you find what works for you?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

If you don't want to meter incident (best for slide film), you need to know how your camera meters set at box speed:

Use a film roll for testing a couple of scenes under direct sun and a couple more under soft light/shadows... Set your camera at box speed and meter a gray card facing camera position... The gray card must receive the real light, and not a lower one.

Shoot N-1, N-1/2, N, N+1/2 and N+1, and then take the card out and meter the scene (same composition) without caring about which portion of the frame the camera meter is metering: AFTER setting your camera to its own reading, take that fourth shot... Then you'll see: 1) which ISO (compared to box speed) is perfect for metering a middle value, AND 2) how your camera meter evaluates the (center of the) scene...

Perfect slide film frames are easy to get because the development is the same always, so all we have to do is use incident metering at box speed, or testing our camera meter...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[parasko]

I think you are overthinking it... it is as simple as pointing your meter at the brightest part of the photo and metering. Any adjustments after that are going to come through experience. Personally I wouldn't dial in + anything... perhaps - ... why don't you just waste a roll trying different combos until you find what works for you?

Yes, I'll probably just have to try a couple of rolls until I have a system down pat.

For my Leica M9, I dial in +2/3 and shoot for highlights and the exposure is incredibly accurate. I just assumed I could do something similar for slide film for consistent results under various conditions.

 

[raid]

a link on using spotmeters: http://www.vad1.com/photo/perfect-slide-exp.html

another link:http://books.google.com/books?id=gD...Ag#v=onepage&q=perfect slide exposure&f=false

Roger and Frances: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps expo slide.html

 

[atlcruiser]

I do much as Raid. I almost always use a spot meter for oudoor landscape/scenic work.

I try to think of the image in 5 stops. Whatever I meter has 2 stops above/below that will expose well. As I get into 3+ stops above/below I start to make executive decisions as to what i want exposed correctly...generally the highlights.

As Raid mentioned eventually one can "see" the zones an only need to take one or two spot readings to get a good exposure. I am not quite there yet but I am getting much closer.

The best thing to do is to practice....a lot! I can often look over a frame and see where i went wrong...or right

 

[bwcolor]

I just shot my first two rolls of Velvia 50. Both rolls were testing for exposure. The first I shot using a spot meter off the IMPORTANT highlights and opened by 1 1/2 stops. When shooting skin I metered off the skin and backed off. In this case, light skin and opened up one-stop. Worked great. I should say this is coming from someone who regularly blew highlights with Canon DSLRs. My second roll was also a test of a new (used) camera. I was testing my Contax Astia in matrix meter mode. Once again, the camera did an amazing job of holding highlights in most shots, except where the subject was rather small and the rest of the image was of a much different EV. That said, the in camera approach gave me 75% success and less control, but it was much faster. I will use the in camera meter, except for really tricky situations, or when the subject is overwhelmed by a much larger area of unlike EV.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Another nice option (frames 5 and 6) is metering your hand under the scene's light (don't give it any amount of shadow with your camera) and shooting #5 opening one stop and #6 opening two stops, so you'll learn how to use your skin as gray card...

Metering highlights and deciding exposure based on them is not a good idea... If you have a scene, and two different objects come into it at different moments, and they become (by turns) "the highlights", why should the same scene be exposed differently if the light is the same? It's not like the zone system... Slide film requires an amount of light, and it doesn't depend on the shadows or highlights, because you won't decide the final contrast as with B&W... You just need to meter a middle value under the same light affecting highlights...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[bwcolor]

Metering highlights and deciding exposure based on them is not a good idea... If you have a scene, and two different objects come into it at different moments, and they become (by turns) "the highlights", why should the same scene be exposed differently if the light is the same? It's not like the zone system

I don't think that you can preserve all highlights with slide film when shooting a high contrast situation. You want to meter off the important highlights that you want to preserve. The question was with regards to blowing highlights. To blindly use only one method for every scene would be a mistake and I think this may be your point. Many times just a simple incident reading would work best, or occasionally metering off the shadow. It all depends on what you want the final slide to look like, but metering off the important highlights and adjusting from there will save you from those highlights from being blown.

 

[jsrockit]

For my Leica M9, I dial in +2/3 and shoot for highlights and the exposure is incredibly accurate. I just assumed I could do something similar for slide film for consistent results under various conditions.

Honestly, I would have thought they'd be similar too.

 

[GSNfan]

Simple, avoid high contrast lighting, don't shoot at high noon and use the matrix metering of any digi p&s to get a preview of the shot.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I don't think that you can preserve all highlights with slide film when shooting a high contrast situation.

Yes, you can, as I said, as long as you meter a middle value receiving the same light the highlights are receiving.

The problem is trying to get both wolds: subjects in shadows and subjects under direct light... That's not possible... Well, it is, but you'll lose shadow or highlight detail... You must go for one of them: if your main subject is in the shadows, you'll compose and meter for it, and things on harsh light are not the most important, so they can be burnt... If your main subject is on direct light, you compose and meter for those zones in good light, and zones in shadow will be dark... That's how slide film is. You can't change its contrast: all you can do is meter and compose for your subject's light...

If there's high contrast, you meter a middle value under direct light, and highlights will be on place.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[NLewis]

Be aware that slide film has a rather narrow exposure range. Very often, in landscape work, you need some sort of exposure balancing tool, typically an ND grad filter. The most common use is to take down the sky by two to three stops. For example, lets say you have a beautiful sunset in the background, and some pretty flowers in the foreground. You figure out that the background is LV13, and the foreground is LV9. This is a five-stop range. Either the background is properly exposed, in which case the flowers are lots in the murk, or the flowers are properly exposed, in which case the background blows out to white. With a grad filter, you lower the background to LV11, then expose for LV10, so that the background is +1 (Zone 6) and the foreground is -1 (Zone 4).

http://www.singh-ray.com/grndgrads.html