Slide Film: How do you avoid blown highlights?

[bwcolor]

Yes, you can, as I said, as long as you meter a middle value receiving the same light the highlights are receiving.

The problem is trying to get both wolds: subjects in shadows and subjects under direct light... That's not possible... Well, it is, but you'll lose shadow or highlight detail... You must go for one of them: if your main subject is in the shadows, you'll compose and meter for it, and things on harsh light are not the most important, so they can be burnt... If your main subject is on direct light, you compose and meter for those zones in good light, and zones in shadow will be dark... That's how slide film is. You can't change its contrast: all you can do is meter and compose for your subject's light...

If there's high contrast, you meter a middle value under direct light, and highlights will be on place.

Cheers,

Juan

I should have said that you can't always preserve all highlights in a high contrast scene unless you are specifically metering off those highlights.

Based on what you say, I will try pure incident light in high contrast lighting and see what I get. I would have thought film such as Velvia 50 was of insufficient latitude to manage this. Thanks.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

You'll get nice whites (well exposed) under direct sun with velvia: its narrow latitude will be visible in the blocked shadows, though.. Strange: if I try to do the same in soft overcast light (say white buildings), I've seen with slide film they can look too washed, so if my subject is white, I meter incident at box speed, use warming filter, and close one third or half stop... But on direct sun box speed is perfect.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Vics]

Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go where they go.

I once read a Galen Rowell interview in which he said almost that same thing, "Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go to hell."
After ten years of Kodachrome, I came running back to Tri-x for this very reason. I ended up only shooting pictures of scenes that were entirely mid-tones. There just isn't any latitude in slide films... maybe four stops?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I once read a Galen Rowell interview in which he said almost that same thing, "Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go to hell."

Maybe when people say expose for highlights, they mean expose for a medium value so highlights are fine. But it doesn't mean meter the highlights to decide on them exclusively: 1)They're not an absolute value: a scene can have different highlights depending on subjects in different moments, and yet receive the same light in those different moments and require the same exposure no matter the highlights. 2)Highlights can be irrelevant.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Hilm3]

Here's how I've metered slides for the last 36 years, first with a Nikkormat FTn, and now with my M7. Works almost always, and it is particularly easy with the M7 (the greatest Leica body ever!) Most of the time, set it on AE, pick an aperture, and just shoot.

You are metering to avoid blown highlights.

Outdoors:
Aim at a patch of blue sky without the sun and lock exposure. I usually aim at the northern sky.
If cloudy, aim at a portion of sky with the sun or main light source just outside the frame and lock exposure. Same as you would meter a sunset.

Indoors:
Light source in the frame? Aim to one side or another of the light source to place it just outside the frame and lock exposure.
Light source not in the frame? Just shoot.

After a couple of rolls, you will start to get a feel for how much of the "brightness" in your subject's highlights to include in the frame while metering. Don't fret so much about exposure and worry about the subject, instead.

It's not rocket science. I've never in my life set an exposure compensation dial to other than zero. Just confuses me. I have thousands upon thousands of slides in boxes in my home that are perfectly exposed (banal, but perfectly exposed ;o) )

Remember - you are metering for the highlights and letting the shadows fall where they may, not metering the highlights and adjusting compensation this many f-stops or that. You are choosing how much of the highlights to include in the camera's metering pattern and locking exposure, then recomposing the frame.

 

[bwcolor]

Or switch to a slide film with a less narrow exposure latitude.

So, which slide films have the widest latitude?

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

So, which slide films have the widest latitude?

If you can get some, Astia has a more natural contrast than other slide films... But slide film is a narrow range media always... That gives it its character, and when well exposed, that short range helps for intense color... That was the great thing with Kodachrome, to give an example... When composing for slide film under direct sun, blocked shadows are a happy part of the game... Soft light can be used , of course, but on direct light slide film shines... Fill light for shadows, in studio or outdoors when main light is direct, is very nice too...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Roger Hicks]

The old name for incident metering was 'the artificial highlight method', and this gives the game away: it is the easiest, laziest way of metering for slides. It's also the best, almost invariably. The only time it isn't is when you can't get close to the subject OR when the light falling on you isn't the same as the light falling on the subject.

If you're too lazy even to use incident light metering, you'll find that you have to work harder to learn how to compensate.

ANY metering system can be made to work. It just depends on how much effort you're prepared to put into (a) metering and (b) interpreting the meter reading.

Cheers,

R.

 

[NickTrop]

I find it humorous that folks who diss digital for blown highlights and reduced dynamic range happily grab their camera loaded with slide film that blows out highlights and has reduced dynamic range...

 

[btgc]

I find it humorous that folks who diss digital for blown highlights and reduced dynamic range happily grab their camera loaded with slide film that blows out highlights and has reduced dynamic range...

At least, roll of slide film is much cheaper way to get blown highlights than buying digital camera 🙂

 

[Gumby]

If you're too lazy even to use incident light metering, you'll find that you have to work harder to learn how to compensate.

I could never have come up with those words... but how true they are!

 

[jsrockit]

At least, roll of slide film is much cheaper way to get blown highlights than buying digital camera 🙂

Depends on how many rolls you shoot.

 

[btgc]

Depends on how many rolls you shoot.

Didn't you see I'm just....fooling? Roll of chrome and processing costs as much as cheap used digicam. Ten chromes, developed, equal to new low end all around digicam. And what are ten rolls? Someone shooting chromes for good reason is using them in [much] larger quantities.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

At least, roll of slide film is much cheaper way to get blown highlights than buying digital camera 🙂

And after a few rolls, people learn how to expose... After a few digital cameras, people don't... 😀 Kidding too...

Cheers,

Juan

 

[Richard G]

I think Roger and Frances's site referred to on page 1 is terrific for getting an understanding of metering and exposure. I have had whole rolls of Kodachrome well exposed with not only box speed, but just the box, with the exposure chart on the box end. Those old Kodak boxes, published tables etc are all founded on incident light. Incident metering has seldom let me down with slides. The reflected sky metering techniques really end up being equivalent to incident in a way - a measure of what light is about, rather than what happens to bounce off the subject.

 

[jsrockit]

Didn't you see I'm just....fooling? Roll of chrome and processing costs as much as cheap used digicam. Ten chromes, developed, equal to new low end all around digicam. And what are ten rolls? Someone shooting chromes for good reason is using them in [much] larger quantities.

Hey man, I'm sorry... I was just, nevermind 🙁




🙂

 

[Richard G]

Astia for sure and then E100G.

I find Astia a bit flat but love E100G for landscape. These from NZ are all exposed by hand held meter, incident, or Sunny 16, with one deliberately shortened 2 stops.


http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/richardgm2/sets/72157618991545830/

 

[parasko]

Thanks for all responses. Very knowledgeable (though some of you forgot about my original criteria which is that I'm using the camera's meter, no time to bracket etc)-street photography, not landscapes!).

Hilm3, your response was what I was looking for...thanks.

Here's how I've metered slides for the last 36 years, first with a Nikkormat FTn, and now with my M7. Works almost always, and it is particularly easy with the M7 (the greatest Leica body ever!) Most of the time, set it on AE, pick an aperture, and just shoot.

You are metering to avoid blown highlights.

Outdoors:
Aim at a patch of blue sky without the sun and lock exposure. I usually aim at the northern sky.
If cloudy, aim at a portion of sky with the sun or main light source just outside the frame and lock exposure. Same as you would meter a sunset.

Indoors:
Light source in the frame? Aim to one side or another of the light source to place it just outside the frame and lock exposure.
Light source not in the frame? Just shoot.

After a couple of rolls, you will start to get a feel for how much of the "brightness" in your subject's highlights to include in the frame while metering. Don't fret so much about exposure and worry about the subject, instead.

It's not rocket science. I've never in my life set an exposure compensation dial to other than zero. Just confuses me. I have thousands upon thousands of slides in boxes in my home that are perfectly exposed (banal, but perfectly exposed ;o) )

Remember - you are metering for the highlights and letting the shadows fall where they may, not metering the highlights and adjusting compensation this many f-stops or that. You are choosing how much of the highlights to include in the camera's metering pattern and locking exposure, then recomposing the frame.

 

[Mister E]

I don't, highlights don't matter and I blow them at will.

 

[Mister E]

Expose for the highlights and let the shadows go where they go.

Expose for the subject, which is the only thing that matters.