Small sensor for available light?

[OlliL]

OK, I'm currently in the market, for a pocketable small sensor camera.

The catch is, that I want one, where ISO3200 is at least usable.
Fast lens is a must, so I'm looking at

- Canon S95 (S100 when available)
- Fuji X10 (need to check size)
- LX-5

I'm also open to alternatives and I would highly appreciate some sample shots from YOUR cameras. 😉

Thanks in advance.

 

[Pancake]

Olympus xz-1 gets good reviews and is quite slim.

 

[Griffin]

Of course you've checked here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/stu...t3Camera=oly_xz1&slot3Sample=p1170608&x=0&y=0

 

[OlliL]

Pancake, thanks! Almost forgot about it.
I really liked my PEN, so this might be a option, too.

Griffin, thanks I did, but I'm more into "real life" photos, for the overall impression.
Even though a good way to compare the technical aspects of how the lens/ sensors handle higher ISO

 

[jho]

Perhaps consider the Ricoh GR Digital IV? Completely pocketable and f1.9 lens.

 

[OlliL]

Had the GRD II, but would like to have a zoom, to compliment my X100.
Looks like a really good camera though and will give it a brief look, if I can find one at a camera shop. Really interested to see the AF improvement, but not a real option at the moment.

Thanks for your input. 🙂


P.S. to make it clear. Size wise, jacket pocketable is OK.
Doesn't have to necessarily fit in a jeans pocket.
I'd prefer a good grip over the extreme miniaturisation.
Have to see, if the S95 isn't a little too small...

 

[Matus]

Not really sure that ANY of the compact cameras will give you reasonable ISO3200 (maybe in BW it will be fine, but otherwise ..). The X10 should be your best bet, but the camera is not small by any measure - just compare the size to X100 - not that much smaller (the lens sticks out quite a bit). If you do not need the zoom think of some m4/3 and the Panasonic 20/1.7. Cameras are reasonably small and the lens is tiny - and fast. And it will deliver much better results than any compact of course. Or even the Fuji X100 - about the same size as m4/3 camera with 20/1.7 and even better high ISO.

Anyone of the cameras of size above Canon S95 or Ricoh GRDIV will not really fit in a normal pocket - the rest is for jacket pockets or above.

I have the GRDIII - a great little camera - and it tops at ISO1600 and I can no see that camera could pull usable ISO3200.

I would also advise you to look at the JPEG and RAW comparisons over at DPreview to see how the cameras you consider perform.

 

[OlliL]

Thanks Matus.
Will do.
Thanks Matus.


I'm currently shooting a Hexar AF with Superia 1600 and I touch the limits regularly.
ISO3200 shouldn't be outstanding, but at least usable.

Size wise, see my edited post above. 🙂

 

[Matus]

Oh, I must have been writing my answer while you just posted yours. Indeed - no point in getting another X100 🙂

I played with the S95 and found it very usable with good finish, but the GRDIII feels better in hand (the S95 seems even thinner). The XZ-1 did not feel as well, but it has a very good lens and there is a 3rd party grip that can be glued/sticked on the camera to improve handling.

The coming S100 - as seen on DPreview produced very uninspiring images - I would guess that the camera was faulty. But I suppose that due to the very compact size the camera will (as the S95 does) do a lot of in-camera processing to remove distortions and color fringes. Takes a bit from the image quality away, but it still seems very nice.

I would actually hope that Panasonic could come up with some update of the LX line. The LX-5 is very good indeed.

I am also very curios about the X10. Could be a perfect vacation camera.

 

[TXForester]

Griffin, thanks I did, but I'm more into "real life" photos, for the overall impression.

I can't help with an opinion on your choices, but I'll tell you what I do about "real life" photos. I do a google search using brand, model and "samples." Usually one of the first choices is a link to pbase for that camera model.

Then I look at a ton of photos. I look at photos shot by everybody. Good, bad, mediocre. All kinds of light conditions. Basically I'm trying to find how the camera handles in worse case scenarios and under good conditions when a competent photographer gets the most out of it.

 

[willie_901]

Since sensor area is the main factor that determines signal-to-noise ratio, I don't see how any small sensor camera will be "at least usable" for color at ISO 3200. ISO 3200 may be suitable for B&W.

 

[OlliL]

Thanks a lot for your input guys! 🙂

Matus, I had the Richard F. grip on my Sigma DP1 and it's really well made.
So this is an option to improve the handling of the S95 and also the XZ-1.
I aggree with your opinion on the dpreview S100 samples.
The lens looks kind of decentered to me.
I'm pretty sure further tests will tell more.

Forester, good idea!
I limited my search to Flickr, so I might have overlooked a pretty good option. 😉


Willie, yes that's the catch.
I'm really fine with b/w, with some grain, but I dislike this oversmoothed high ISO images you can get from cameras with excessive noise redcution. Looking at the samples Griffin pointed to, I can see exactly that in the S95 shot.

 

[DamenS]

Another thing to consider is that the passive contrast detect AF on most compact cameras will REALLY struggle in light levels which would require ISO 3,200. This is one area where the Active IR autofocus of the Hexar AF you have, will not be matched by any current compact camera.

 

[OlliL]

Damen, yes I know.
Already comparing the Hexar AF, to the X100, the difference ist HUGE.
But I'm aware of that, so that won't be an issue. 🙂

 

[noimmunity]

What about the NEX 5N? seems like it would give the best high ISO (if you can focus) in the smallest package around (providing you use the right lens).

 

[OlliL]

Thought about it, too.

Problem is, that I can't find a high aperture zoom lens.
Would be a great lowlight shooter, with the 40mm Nokton and still pocketable....
But: Fixed focal length only :-/

 

[urban_alchemist]

It's really got to be a Ricoh GRD (I'm on IV now, after I, II and III).

If you REALLY must have a zoom, try a GX-200.

 

[noimmunity]

Thought about it, too.

Problem is, that I can't find a high aperture zoom lens.
Would be a great lowlight shooter, with the 40mm Nokton and still pocketable....
But: Fixed focal length only :-/

Cropping and stitching? With such a big sensor, you might still get better results.

 

[OlliL]

My worries are, that I might not get enough FOV, at least with a 40mm (~60mm equivalent).
And to be honest, I wasn't really impressed by the pictures I saw from the E-Mount 16mm.


urban alchemist: Had the GX100 couple years ago and think it was pretty good for it's time.
I'm not sure how the GX200 (released '08, if I'm not mistaken?!) would stack up it's competition these days.

 

[Matus]

Oliver, this may or may not help you, but Reid just published a long review of the X10 on his webpage (only for subscribers though). I would for obvious reasons not go into details, but the high ISO images indeed look very good for a compact camera.