so much angst! why?

I'm on a bicycle forum (LFGSS) too and these guys are so passionate about squeezing the every last ounce of cycling advantage from their kit that drives them to the edge of angst. Whenever I meet up with someone from that forum for a trade I'm usually met by a unique pair of wheels. One of my first questions is usually "How many bikes do you own?" and the answer is never "1".
 
back alley said:
it's just a hobby for most of us yet so many of us suffer from so much angst....about gear, about what our style might be, is this a good image? what do others really think of our pics? why don't people comment on my stuff?

do other hobbies suffer similarly?
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Well, I think most of us here don't really consider ourselves artists, obviously some, but I certainly don't.

I think the gear lust is a combination of consumerism, and also the rose-tinted view of what it will be like to use that gear. I will probably buy a Fotoman 45SPS soon, I don't need it, but I want it.

Worrying about style etc. Is it a good image I suppose is a more healthy thing to worry about, but only if we use what we think to make a change.

Why don't people comment on our pics, what do they think? Well, I think we see this all the time on Facebook etc. and I think if we saw it there, we'd call it narcissism.

It's clear the above does not apply to everyone (or even anyone), but I think it can be closer to the truth than 'because we're passionate artists'. I think 99% of us are hobbyists, and we're not artists.

But most of us are not willing to change how we think about gear or our photos. Changing how we think about gear will likely mean no new toys, and changing how we think about our photos will mean going outside our comfort zones, and most of us are not really willing to do that.
 
Some people tend to need to get passionate about something.
I personally prefer people getting absolute ideas about their cameras, bikes, watches, train toys etc, whether than on their countries, gods and race because that's when things get ugly.
 
back alley said:
but do other hobbies/hobbyists share a similar passion?
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as a musician, absolutely.

there are gear-snob synth purists who hate digital synths and only want moogs (leicas), the people who only use akai samplers with the pads because they're iconic, or people who buy TR-808s and have a superiority complex because of it. and these people generally make the least music.

it can be even more angsty because people you know can get a record deal or something released, which is more common than people we know having photos published. sending out demos, trying to get shows, the horrors of collaborating, annoying people who make bad music but are really good at promoting themselves and put their songs everywhere...

i take pictures now because it's far less soul-crushing than trying to make (it with) music. i've been wanting to get back into it but it will truly be for my own enjoyment when i do.

any angst i feel towards photography is nothing compared to what music's frustrations were to me.
 
kehng said:
I'm on a bicycle forum (LFGSS) too and these guys are so passionate about squeezing the every last ounce of cycling advantage from their kit that drives them to the edge of angst. Whenever I meet up with someone from that forum for a trade I'm usually met by a unique pair of wheels. One of my first questions is usually "How many bikes do you own?" and the answer is never "1".
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Hi. I'm on LFGSS too (as well as several other cycling fora). Hope to meet you awheel one day.

Cyclists are exactly the same as photographers in their anxieties over kit and usage, as well as petty arguments over pointless differences.
 
No angst with me about any of those things.
The only other hobby I`m connected with is equestrian .
Plenty of angst there on the competitive activities if you want.
Sadly some only see their horse in relation to its ability to win.
We competed and won but didn`t suffer any angst if we didn`t.
 
oftheherd said:
Thanks for the idea Joe! Tonight I'm going to drive through the car wash with the sun roof open. I should be producing better photos in no time.
:D :D :D
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Hey oftheherd, Joe was talking about audiophiles and their ears, just wipe your eyeballs with some Windex!! Less messy than the carwash.
 
Less messy than the carwash.
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Made me remember a cinema advert for a hair shampoo called Dop. Tall willowy blonde drives an E-Type jaguar, with its hood down, into a car wash. As she passes through the machine, she washes her hair, with the featured product, then emerges from the drying section, her mane flowing smoothly around her shoulders.

Chap behind me, in a very loud whisper to his lady friend: "Eeh luv, what a daft lass! She could have saved the money on the shampoo, if she was going to wash the car anyway."

:D
 
back alley said:
but do other hobbies/hobbyists share a similar passion?
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Absolutely.

As it happens, photography is my second love, born out of a desire to record my experiences in my first love: fly fishing and fly tying.

In many ways, it amazes me how similar these two are, from the artistic focus on method and technique, the nods to tradition and the "greats" who have gone before...to the various types of enthusiast, from the beginner looking to learn, to the gearhead, to the curmudgeon, to the fad follower...

Gear is every bit as divisive a topic as well, and even extends to radically different approaches analogous to various formats (MF compared to 35mm might compare well to one guy using a 12wt with 8" flies to pursue tarpon in the ocean compared to another guy using a 2wt to go after brook trout in a mountain stream, most of which are smaller than the first guy's flies).

Even the gear is analogous, with the community anxiously anticipating the next new thing, some guys preferring highly technical, space-age, cutting edge stuff, and others eschewing all that and paying exorbitant prices for antique bamboo rods from the 30s. Still others represent the holgas and dianas of the photo world, preferring the most basic, old everyman fiberglass rods of the 70s, that they remember buying from the hardware store as a kid, despite various technical disadvantages (and similar to lomo, this trend has sparked a recent revival of such "lo-fi" gear...though modern fiberglass rods tend to be extremely high quality).

Reels provide the complex mechanical beauty of many a camera, and nearly every angler is on the eternal quest for the best way to carry all of his junk on the water, whether by vest, pack, sling, etc.

You even have the ethics arguments, debates of technique ("Dry flies are the only thing a true angler fishes..."), and in the world of fly tying, a parallel to the darkroom/post processing...with it's own microcosm of new gear, established approaches, hacked up jobs from beginners, pursuit of rare materials, etc.

Also, both can be cheap, but in all reality tend to be horrifyingly expensive pursuits, full of GAS.

All in all, the more I got into photography, it shocked me how many parallels could be drawn between the two. In the end, I think it reflects on my own psyche more than anything...and reinforces the suspicion that I'm a glutton for punishment.
 
Which other hobbies?

If you classic car owner, you most likely to go at some contest in summer time.
If you are fishing, you most likely to spent thousands. At least, I did, I purchased the boat. :)
If you are into flying planes models, you are up to another competition, most likely too.

I'm having hard time to allocate the hobby without spending a lot and not going competitive and not seeking feedback.
Collecting ladies stockings, may be? :eek:
 
back alley said:
it's just a hobby for most of us yet so many of us suffer from so much angst....about gear, about what our style might be, is this a good image? what do others really think of our pics? why don't people comment on my stuff?

do other hobbies suffer similarly?
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I don't believe that people for whom photography is "just a hobby" exhibit the kind of rabid passion and anxiety you speak of. "Just a hobby" implies casual use of a camera. My partner sees photography that way, he only gets impatient because I don't give him all the pictures I take at events we attend together directly out of the camera. "Why do you need to process them?" For me, straight out of the camera (ANY camera), they're simply not finished yet ... and I hate to hand out work which isn't finished.

I don't worry much about what my style is ... it is what it is; my photographic vision isn't for everyone, I know that ... and what other people think of my photos, see in them, is always interesting to hear. The silence when I post something is another form of feedback. People do get hung up on this sort of stuff, I guess they're looking for support from others because they're a bit unsure whether they like what they've produced. I'm happy with what I post, overall, even if I see flaws and issues that I could have done better on.

The current milieu on-line is very chit-chatty, very social. Whether it's moreso than direct interaction for most people I'm not sure ... in my case, it certainly is. I prefer silence and quiet most of the time, I produce things that satisfy my inner urges and like to look at them, think about them, afterwards. Others, perhaps the majority of the average snapshooters, produce their works for other people to enjoy.

Different psychologies. I'm probably a dinosaur.

G


​
 
jsrockit said:
Cold, thanks for the great analogy. Both worlds are seemingly full of BS. I'm not immune.
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Absolutely.

Lefty Kreh, a famous name in fly fishing, is often quoted in this regard.

"There's more BS in fly fishing than in a Kansas feed lot." :D
 
It's not the hobby, it's us :) I know very keen photographers who don't have the angst too, but every hobby will attract some GAS afflicted angst-ers! I know a fisherman who obsesses over tiny details of reels and rods far disproportionate to anything he catches, in fact so far disproportionate it's comedy, a cyclist who just cycles to work and home each day but for whom every tiny weight differential in a brake pad is read about and read about and read about, and a professional musician who will spend a fortune on gadgets that make no objective difference to the quality of his output.

I relate to all of those. Does having a 35mm Summicron make my photos objectively better? No, but until I owned one I obsessed about it and the act of using one makes me enjoy my hobby more so ultimately I do it more and the net result is a higher number of photos I like. So success. Kind of.
 
I think the angst is rooted in the fact that photography is not easy. We live in a world (well, some of us) that pushes instant gratification. Those of us in affluent countries are easily lulled into believeing that we are able to buy our way into being good at a priceless skill - creating images. The angst may be the tangible part of our frustration at the length of time it takes for us to realize actual success in something we want so badly to succeed at. So we expect this long, slow, wonderful journey to somehow rocket us to stardom. We look at our idols and imagine ourselves in their shoes. But it doesn't work that way - not for me anyhow. But I wouldn't trade a single frame of anything I've shot, good and bad, and God willing I hope I continue to chase this obsession with pictures to my grave!
 
back alley said:
it's just a hobby for most of us yet so many of us suffer from so much angst....about gear, about what our style might be, is this a good image? what do others really think of our pics? why don't people comment on my stuff?
Click to expand...

Q: What is a pursuit without its share of excitement and anxiety?
A: Sleep.
 
williams473 said:
I think the angst is rooted in the fact that photography is not easy. We live in a world (well, some of us) that pushes instant gratification. Those of us in affluent countries are easily lulled into believeing that we are able to buy our way into being good at a priceless skill - creating images. The angst may be the tangible part of our frustration at the length of time it takes for us to realize actual success in something we want so badly to succeed at. So we expect this long, slow, wonderful journey to somehow rocket us to stardom. We look at our idols and imagine ourselves in their shoes. But it doesn't work that way - not for me anyhow. But I wouldn't trade a single frame of anything I've shot, good and bad, and God willing I hope I continue to chase this obsession with pictures to my grave!
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I agree with everything you have said except the reasoning. I think it's probably got more to do with photography being *too easy* not that it's not easy.

Many types of angst come from self doubt, and you're not likely to suffer from self doubt if you've achieved something unquestionably amazing like climbing Everest, or sailing solo around the world. But the very, very best photographers in the world have only ever pointed a camera at a subject.

Now that's deliberately simplified of course, but the difference between a crappy portfolio and a great one could probably be considered quite slight, and definitely considered a matter of opinion. On the other hand, if you've completed a full triathlon, it's not a matter of opinion that it's a great achievement.

If one of us had taken an amazing photo, on a par with HCB, would we even know we'd done it?
 
Im personally amazed that people take theirs hobbies so seriously. I should not be. Just a way for someone to express themselves as a savy, knowledgeable person. It seems like a lost cause to me so I take the opposite tact: what is the most you can get from, not a minimum, but reasonable limits (regarding the slightly impossible combo of price/quality).

I used to go on bike forums but the combination of machismo and nailbiting was just too much. Rff is way better.
 
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