So, what were the best LTM classical lenses?

[Luddite Frank]

I think we have to define classic, yes.

Perhaps you are correct about the Summicron. I equate it in my mind mated to an M3, therefore I think of it as an M lens. But as the culmination of the Leica F2 50mm lenses perhaps it is also a classic LTM lens. If so, it's place is earned by being the height of development of this 50mm lens variant. Does this mean the Summitar should not be considered a classic as it was so eclipsed?

Of course, both Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle are Hall of Fame centerfielders based on their own merits.

I think we have to have some way to separate the true classics other than to create a list of all, or our favorite lenses. Not every excellent player belongs in the Hall of Fame.

I think the one un-arguable LTM "Classic" would be the 50mm Elmar.

And, though it's not LTM, the Leitz Anastigmat / Elmax deserve honorable mention.

 

[Calzone]

And Ralph, you should try the Tokyo Nikkor 50/1.4. Also has the honor of being the first 50/1.4 lens ever. Beats any other 50 Sonnar variant in terms of built and bokeh, at least for me.

🙂

Roland,

What distinguishes a Tokyo lens over other Nikkor 50/1.4's?

I understand that some of the earlier versions had rather savage overbuilds and were extra heavy. I kinda like the extra weight BTW.

Cal

 

[Dralowid]

Personal opinion only...

I would agree with the selection of the 50mm Elmar. Indeed all the Elmar 'family' with the exception of 35mm sum up the whole 'thing' whatever it may be.

Having used the original Anastigmat (now sold, see avatar) I couldn't really see any difference in the results between it and Elmar and to be honest I wanted to sell it before I lost it! I have no experience of the 'new' Anastigmat.

It is a personal opinion but I have found both the 50mm and 73mm Hektors dissapointing...and they were fair examples.

And as for Summars, when I was younger we would do everything we could to get rid of these, they were truly worthless...and now they have become a legend!

Grumpy of Sussex

 

[Bingley]

The OP's original question was what are the best classical LTM lenses... which raises two questions of interpretation: what is classical and what is best.

Not sure how to answer those, but I agree w/ the emerging consensus that includes the Elmar 50/3.5. I'd also add the Summitar or Collapsible Summicron, and for 35 perhaps the Summaron. And I'd include a Sonnar, either Canon, Nikkor, or CZJ.

 

[rogerzilla]

The 50/3.5 Elmar is the real classic, but a clean Summar gives an unbeatable look with the right subject. The 35/3.5 Summaron is also a nice little lens, but we're almost up to the M series by that point in time.

The collapsible 'cron is closer to the Summitar than to the later rigid 'cron/DR, and it has nasty bokeh. I wasn't hugely impressed.

Most shots I've seen taken with the obscure older lenses are in books and are very unsharp, which suggests very poor technique (handholding/focus) or reproduction. I'd be interested to know how sharp a mountain Elmar really is, for example. The shots I've taken with these old lenses are sharper than our current digicam by a country mile.

 

[Kent]

I love the Hektor 135 for its bokeh
and the Elmar 90 for its compactness (not for the bokeh though)
and (don't hit me) my Jupiter-8 2/50!

 

[kermaier]

Maybe we should define "classic" in terms of photographs that were made using those lenses, that have stood the test of time.

For example:
DDD with the Nikkor 50/1.4 and 85/2
HCB with the collapsible Summicron
Winogrand with the Canon 28/2.8

Anyonone know what Frank used for "The Americans"?

::Ari

 

[L David Tomei]

There are several notable vintage LTM lenses but only a few are classics. The 5cm Hektor is an expensive vintage lens, but the 5cm Elmar is a classic.

Re: Frank. I think the question should be Does anybody REALLY know what cameras and lenses he used for "The Americans"... 28, 35, 50, 90mm's on a IIIc?

 

[ferider]

Thanks, Pan F, interesting adaptation.

Roland,

What distinguishes a Tokyo lens over other Nikkor 50/1.4's?

I understand that some of the earlier versions had rather savage overbuilds and were extra heavy. I kinda like the extra weight BTW.

Cal

Cal, the early Nikkor seems to have smoother backgrounds, to my eyes.

Anyonone know what Frank used for "The Americans"?

::Ari

I vaguely remember seeing a photo of Frank with a Barnack and 50/1.5 Sonnar, Ari. There is also Alfred Eisenstaedt, with the Elmar 35 as one of his favorites. Which HCB also used on occasion .... totally unpopular lens these days. Also, check this out:

Roland.

 

[David Murphy]

OK, here are three I've been using lately that really impress me. They are not very well known either:

1) Yashinon 50mm F1.8 made for the Yashica (Nicca) YF

2) Simlar 5cm F1.5 sold with the Leotax S, F (and probably other models)

3) Schneider-Kreuznach Xenogon 35mm F2.8

The Yashinon 50mm F1.8 performance absolutely blows me away with it's modern rendition of color and crisp, sharp images. This must have been a forerunner to the excellent optics produced by Yashica for their fixed lens series of rangefinders. From about 1959-1960.

I expected the Simlar 5cm F1.5 to be good and it is, but it was better than I thought, particularly in its rendition of color. It is similar to the first Summicron in image quality. It's hard to say what it's worth since it's uncommon and often found mated to a Leotax body -- maybe $300-400 for a good one? Made in the early 1950's.

The Xenogon strikes me as on a par with the slightly later Summaron 35mm F2.8, if not superior. It produces bitingly sharp high contrast images edge-to-edge. It is not common and it is not cheap! It is also very compact and light, similar to the Summaron 3.5cm F3.5 in size, but a stop faster! I was lucky enough to obtain a copy at a reasonable price here not too long ago. The boys at Schneider really know their stuff when it comes to making quality lenses (then and now). Made in the early fifties.

 

[Bar8barian]

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[David Murphy]

I think that the Fujinon range of LTM lenses are "classics".
Many RFf members own and use these "gems".
I particularly like the modest 50mm f2.8 Fujinon.
This lens was a standard alternative lens on Leotax cameras of the 1950's
RFf forum member "HACKER" shows what this lens can achieve on his examples posted on this thread:-

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1498041&highlight=FUJINON#post1498041

Little doubt the Fujinon line is excellent. They are awfully hard to find at any thing but very high prices sadly.

 

[pagpow]

So, what were the best LTM classical lenses?

I assume if it weren't "classical", the best lenses would be some of the Cosina modern lenses, or some of the newer Leica lenses but made in LTM.

Vick

Building on Steve's post:

I read Vick's question as: "Of the ltm lenses not in current production (ie the ones from the classic period), which ones are best -- otherwise in many cases it would be the Cosina ltm lenses.

If that's right -- hey Vick, throw us a line, here -- we don't have to worry about defining classic (as in performance). All we have to do is trot out our notions of which ltm lenses preceding the current period are the best.

The Headbartender gave us a start in his classic camera profiles:
http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmlens.htm

We can build on that, differ from that, or ignore it.

I can speak for the ones I know best -- the last iteration of Canon ltm were very highly thought of -- 35/2; 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 85/1.8, 100/3.5, 135/3.5.

Haven't used the 85 or 135.

 

[Red Robin]

Well.... yeah!

Cool beans!😀 My whole lens kit is classic. .. ... and I though they were just 2nd hand stuff that I could afford. Is it OK for me to feel smug now?

 

[Red Robin]

I feel that the lenses I use are quite adequate for me at my level of skill. The canons ,the pre-'60 line-up are to me a wonder. the Jupiters may do better w/shims, and my lone minolta 45mm does well for me. My lone CZJ 5cm 1:1,5 currently exceeds my skills so I have no need or plans to look for better glass. Certainly there is better, and there is more expensive If i am able to bring up my personal skill-level maybe I'll look at others, but for now. .. ...

 

[furcafe]

Voigtlander 50/1.5 Nokton (same formula as for Prominent mount).