maddoc
... likes film again.
My thoughts, too. I wouldn`t like to use a camera where I have to follow a strict "Do`s" and "Don`t" list every time I want to take a single snap.
Sold my XP1, committed to the M9...uh oh
- Thread starter David_Manning
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My thoughts, too. I wouldn`t like to use a camera where I have to follow a strict "Do`s" and "Don`t" list every time I want to take a single snap.
benlees
Well-known
Indeed, pay more while lowering your expectations of said products capability? Leica has achieved marketing nirvana!
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Kinda like what Jerry Garcia said about the Grateful Dead: We may not be the best at what we do, but we're the only ones that do what we do.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
They are out of production. I wish they had continued to develop that line, but they didn't.
burancap
Veteran
Leica should have rebadged them. There must have been, but I can't recall an instance of the Epson(s) having a problem ... Anyone?
sojournerphoto
Veteran
David, I would stick with it for a while. I have an M9 and a monochrom. the M9 for 3 years, and they have so far been perfectly reliable. I've also played with m4/3, but expect sell that kit shortly because I just enjoybshooting with my Leica's and Ikons so much more. That comfort is worth more to me and my picture making than fears of failure, albeit I admit to beig privileged in having a backup.
Commit, enjoy and give it a year
Mike
Commit, enjoy and give it a year
Mike
willie_901
Veteran
Dave,
I can't imagine how disappointed you must be.
I hope your experience is a rare, one-off event.
I can't imagine how disappointed you must be.
I hope your experience is a rare, one-off event.
Lss
Well-known
There is the black frame problem with R-D1, which is usually due to a bad battery. Mine shot two black frames a couple of years ago, I threw away the battery and the camera has been flawless since then. Currently there is an ongoing thread in the Epson forum, where a user is experiencing black frames and a new battery did not help, though.
The Epson R-D1 also has some mechanical issues, the rangefinder that goes easily out is often quoted. It's not my experience. Another issue is the swiveling screen which may develop a bad contact.
My Leica M8 continues to be problem free. The camera has seen some rough treatment, it's been used in the rain, at temperatures between about -30C and 45C degrees, it takes any SD card I happen to have (an M9 problem?), and it does not act up or miss shots. The battery indicator does not work correctly with my third-party batteries, which is by design. Unforgivable design, but by design nevertheless. The funny thing is I have had a 1-series Canon develop problems in less use. I have had several Canons lose shots in the same time. I am sure my Leica will eventually develop some actual problems, but I'm enjoying the ride without worries.
swoop
Well-known
Not.to blame the victim but, what did you do? Of all the issues and faults of the M9 I've never once heard of it going psycho and deleting images spontaneously. Also the new firmware helped to solve the issue of reliability with low batteries. Basically the batteries weren't supplying enough power to the camera when the power was low resulting in failed writes, corrupted images and freezing. It's even worse when you think of second hand cameras that may have very worn batteries or even switched out from the M8 after upgrading. The new firmware reset the power gauge a bit higher to prevent such behavior. Most issues with the M9 can be solved by simply throwing in a fresh battery.
My guess is you may have accidentally hit delete all.
My guess is you may have accidentally hit delete all.
jsrockit
Moderator
I've owned many, many different digital cameras and the M8 and M9 have been my only cameras that have had these issues. You have to baby them more than other brands.
I think what Frank is getting at is why do people put up with a flaky camera that costs a lot of cash when many other companies just give you a camera that works right for less cash.
I know the answer so I'm not trying to start a war. I liked using the M8 and M9. They do require special care when using vs. other cameras though.
hausen
Well-known
Think this was certainly how I felt. Couldn't fault the look, the feel, the usability and the results produced of my M9 but the fragility of the electronics once you factored in the price become a mind *** for me.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
All one needs to do Frank, if you really want angst, is to visit the Fuji forums and the XPro-1 subforum. Yes, they have as many or more issues than the Leica Ms have. They may be different issues, but they've got serious issues nonetheless. I never had a card fail on my XPro-1, but it missed focus on every third shot. At least with the M cameras, I know that if it's missed focus, it's because of me, not the firmware or CDAF system.
This from the Fuji Forum about the Xpro-1's firmware 3.01: "I spent the day out doing some street photography with my Xpro1 using the 18-55, 35 and 14mm lenses. On 3 occasions I had the camera completely lock up on me and had to pull the battery to reset it. All firmware is up to date. Never had a single issue before this update." As I recall when I had mine, although it never happened to me, they were locking up with version 2.0 as well a year or so ago.
Yes, those pesky little computer issues plague every camera brand from time to time. I think we need to keep some perspective here. The grass really isn't any greener on the other side of the fence.
jsrockit
Moderator
That's funny... I've had my X-Pro1 since day one with no issues. This is the first I'm hearing of mass issues for this camera. The grass really has been greener for me with my Fujis.
Lss
Well-known
Or you can just use them.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Honestly, I wanted to like my XPro-1. I really did I shot about 5k exposures with it. I had mine about 8 months or so and during that time I think there were 4 firmware releases. There were significant complaints about the autofocus system, lenses racking back and forth, the camera's inability to lock focus... noise from lenses... they "fixed" the menu system (I really don't remember what that was about...) and each lens has had firmware updates to to make them more responsive in manual focus. It was quite the free-for-all for a year and a half after the release of the camera. And I have to give credit where credit is due, Fuji is continuing to release firmware updates to address those issues, but it's interesting that they're on release 3.01 in less than two years... so that's three major releases with a number of releases with bug fixes in between.
I'd hope that the XPro-1 is becoming a better workhorse with every iteration, but truly the grass isn't any greener. I've got the M9P and M8 and never had any of the issues with either one that seem to plague others here, too. Perhaps I've been lucky; perhaps my luck will run out one day. But for now, I don't afford my M bodies any different treatment than I have any other camera I've owned. I shoot differently because of what they are and because I'm shooting primes instead of zooms, but being a film Leica user for years, it's a style that's not only familiar, but comfortable.
For now, I'm a pretty happy camper.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Boy this just confirms that I'll be continuing to love my obsolete D300/700 cameras for several more years... good thing I'm a mesomorph and can handle their heft.
David_Manning
Well-known
Another comment from the "victim"...
My M9 didn't start deleting files...I'll have to go back and re-read what I wrote. What it actually did was begin CORRUPTING the files, so that they were unreadable, either in-camera or on the computer in any RAW-reading software.
But the gist is the same...the camera locked up, and spontaneously started corrupting files (rendering them unusable...essentially the same as deleting, as far as I'm concerned...they were unrecoverable by me).
After I finally yanked the battery out (because it continued it's diabolical work, along with a blinking red light, when I switched the power off), I regained control, since it was dead. I reinserted the battery, powered on, and the camera told me the battery was low. I switched to a charged battery, and a new card, and it operated normally. Remember, I was ankle-deep in sand on Ipanema Beach, not the best place to perform troubleshooting.
My research online since then indicates that many issues, possibly related, conspire to make this problem occur. The card has been used, and was previously being used in camera, so the card is a good card. I had taken about three shots in succession, and I usually wait for the blinking red buffer light to stop, but since it was buffering multiple shots, I assumed I could see the first shot. That's when it lost it's little electronic brain and malfunctioned.
My issues with this are basically, 1) a camera should NEVER corrupt previously-recorded image data...ever, and 2) if it's related to battery-low states, what good is the battery low indication if it craps out BEFORE you get the indication? Again, I have spare batteries, but how do you guess when to change a partially-discharged battery?
As far as blaming the victim...yes, I assume some responsibility. I am mostly unfamiliar with the M9, and my previous experience was with an M6 (although I've got plenty of familiarity with digital cameras of all kinds). The firmware in my M9 was 1.62, not the most recent. The firmware is now updated. I'll stick with it, and shoot my M9 on my upcoming trips to San Juan, Puerto Rico, and Paris. If it recurs, I'll be switching to my 5DmkII and selling the M9. I don't mind changing my method or speed of shooting for a different kind of camera, but it's hard to justify the expense for a crippled piece of man-jewelry, if that's what it becomes.
My M9 didn't start deleting files...I'll have to go back and re-read what I wrote. What it actually did was begin CORRUPTING the files, so that they were unreadable, either in-camera or on the computer in any RAW-reading software.
But the gist is the same...the camera locked up, and spontaneously started corrupting files (rendering them unusable...essentially the same as deleting, as far as I'm concerned...they were unrecoverable by me).
After I finally yanked the battery out (because it continued it's diabolical work, along with a blinking red light, when I switched the power off), I regained control, since it was dead. I reinserted the battery, powered on, and the camera told me the battery was low. I switched to a charged battery, and a new card, and it operated normally. Remember, I was ankle-deep in sand on Ipanema Beach, not the best place to perform troubleshooting.
My research online since then indicates that many issues, possibly related, conspire to make this problem occur. The card has been used, and was previously being used in camera, so the card is a good card. I had taken about three shots in succession, and I usually wait for the blinking red buffer light to stop, but since it was buffering multiple shots, I assumed I could see the first shot. That's when it lost it's little electronic brain and malfunctioned.
My issues with this are basically, 1) a camera should NEVER corrupt previously-recorded image data...ever, and 2) if it's related to battery-low states, what good is the battery low indication if it craps out BEFORE you get the indication? Again, I have spare batteries, but how do you guess when to change a partially-discharged battery?
As far as blaming the victim...yes, I assume some responsibility. I am mostly unfamiliar with the M9, and my previous experience was with an M6 (although I've got plenty of familiarity with digital cameras of all kinds). The firmware in my M9 was 1.62, not the most recent. The firmware is now updated. I'll stick with it, and shoot my M9 on my upcoming trips to San Juan, Puerto Rico, and Paris. If it recurs, I'll be switching to my 5DmkII and selling the M9. I don't mind changing my method or speed of shooting for a different kind of camera, but it's hard to justify the expense for a crippled piece of man-jewelry, if that's what it becomes.
Renzsu
Well-known
Now imagine that happening during a workshop when you're shooting intensively.. it happened to me with my M9.. corrupted a card and could only continue shooting after removing the battery and inserting a new card. Same day, someone else in the workshop has an M9 that won't shoot with any of his cards anymore and has to resort to shooting with his X1 for the rest of the day. After clearing the cards in his computer, the M9 started working again magically. 3rd person in the workshop had 2 M9's with him for this reason, just in case one would die.
To be honest, that day was the only time mine gave me the finger, and I have been shooting that workshop like a madman, lots of images and rapid fire (to the point where it stops shooting and I have to wait a long time for the buffer to empty).
It's a pretty slow camera and I can't believe how finicky it is with memory cards, but once you find cards that work for you, keep buying more of the same. Also, make a habit of bringing more cards instead of deleting images on the camera.
Finally, format your card each time you put it back into the camera and start fresh.
I haven't really had any issues after I started doing this...
To be honest, that day was the only time mine gave me the finger, and I have been shooting that workshop like a madman, lots of images and rapid fire (to the point where it stops shooting and I have to wait a long time for the buffer to empty).
It's a pretty slow camera and I can't believe how finicky it is with memory cards, but once you find cards that work for you, keep buying more of the same. Also, make a habit of bringing more cards instead of deleting images on the camera.
Finally, format your card each time you put it back into the camera and start fresh.
I haven't really had any issues after I started doing this...
Lss
Well-known
Your description is similar to what happened to me with one Canon DSLR a few years ago. The main difference is that I had a fresh battery. I guess the card just went bad (I had used it for more than a year with no problems). I never used the card again and never had a similar problem with that camera. Just repeated Error 99, but that is Canon for you.
jsrockit
Moderator
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