Some news on the Digital M and a new Leica lens

[StuartR]

Hello all,

My local Leica rep just gave a "virtual factory tour" at the local camera shop and the topic of the digital M came up. He said that they are still planning on unveiling it at Photokina, and while they do not have an exact price yet, they are fairly adament about keeping it under 5000 dollars. He said that the 5000 dollar mark was important, as it is a big psychological break. Anything more than that and most people will not even consider it, but below, people looking at other digital cameras may be tempted to purchase it. Anyway...It will be 1.33x and 10.2 to 10.5 megapixels, and the framelines will be for 28 to 90mm (I am not sure whether he meant for those lenses, or for the digital equivalents...).

What I found really interesting though was that he said there would be a tri-elmar like lens released with it that would be 15-18-21! He said he did not know the maximum f/stop or whether it would be digital only, but I seem to remember hearing that they were no interested in making digital only lenses. In any case, none of this information is guaranteed, and I cannot guarantee that I didn't misunderstand or hear something wrong etc. etc., but the idea of a 15-18-21 tri-elmar like lens is fantastic to me. It will allow DM users to have true wide angle options, and if it works on film as well, then it will certainly be a huge advantage for wide angle shooters as well. Certainly a unique lens!

 

[Ken Ford]

I could see a 21 - 28 - 35 T3, because it would presumably work with the built-in framelines. But 15-18-21?!?

 

[MP/CLE]

Wouldn't that work with the tendency of digital cameras to reduce (or increase) the existing focal length of a lens by a certain percentage? If it will read the image at 1.33x, to have a true wide angle, we'll have to use a much wider view to obtain the same standard wideangle we're used to.

Stuart, did he say what it would look like? Framelines with the screen on the back?

 

[erikhaugsby]

15-18-21 would fit with the 1.33x crop factor for the MD (by making a film equivalent of a 20-24-28mm 3E lens) , and I'm sure that Leica wouldn't hesitate to market a 3x Zoom-Finder for those who use it on film cameras.

Its a shame that the rep. didn't specify if the framelines were to be used as "Digital MM-Equivalent" or "Film MM" framelines.

 

[StuartR]

Unfortunately I did not ask him that. But again, the 15-18-21 is superb for the reason that Erik mentioned -- it will be a 20-24-28mm on the MD, and since they already have a 21,24,28 varifocal viewfinder, I am sure that it can be modified for convenient use with the lens very easily. And if it works for film users even better...then you pretty much have a superwide zoom. I can't see them doing a digital only lens, because there would be a strong market out there for film users who like wide lenses, and also, if it is digital only, how many would they sell? Certainly less than the digital M, which would be the only camera it would work on. And then, the crop factor is not very large, so making the image circle large enough to cover 35mm film should not be a great hindrance. If it were APS-C sized or 4/3rds, then perhaps it might make sense, but with a 1.33 crop it seems unnecessary.

MP/CLE, he said it would look like an M7, but slightly thicker, and the screen is going to be big. I think it is 2.5" IIRC, perhaps 2". I am sure some things will be different (probably no film advance lever etc)

 

[einolu]

I want small, light, cheap and fast digital only primes. I guess I am the only one, heh.

The problem with Leica is that they keep doing the same thing over and over, and clearly it isnt working too well. I wonder what would have happen if they would have been the ones that made something like the Bessa R (and then a digital version in the future).

 

[StuartR]

What exactly do you mean? They have never made a digital m before, nor a wide angle multifocal lens. What do you think they should do? As for the digital only primes, the sensor is not that much smaller than 35mm, how much size do you think they could shave off? You can't get all that much smaller than the 35 and 50 summicrons.

 

[Dougg]

I can't see them doing a digital only lens, because there would be a strong market out there for film users who like wide lenses, and also, if it is digital only, how many would they sell? Certainly less than the digital M, which would be the only camera it would work on. And then, the crop factor is not very large, so making the image circle large enough to cover 35mm film should not be a great hindrance.

Good point on the modest crop factor... But even if it were digital-only, it would cover the smaller R-D1 sensor and would sell to some Epson owners. Bet it's an expensive lens though...

 

[jaapv]

Leica did announce in the last issue of LFI of Januari new M lenses in the wideangle range, dedicated to the cropped M-dig camera to be offered at a lower price than the current range of lenses (they even mentioned a package with the body). I suppose your rep was referring to this. It was not stated that this was to be a tri-elmar like lens, the article suggested prime lenses. It would be nice to have a multifocal one, but to use that with a seperate viewfinder would rather defeat the purpose of such a lens. So I would call this a rumour. Anyhow, we will see at the Photokina, Leica has been saying they will introduce the digital M there since its first announcement in 2004.

 

[summilux]

will there be a Panasonic version released at the same time?

 

[einolu]

What exactly do you mean? They have never made a digital m before, nor a wide angle multifocal lens. What do you think they should do? As for the digital only primes, the sensor is not that much smaller than 35mm, how much size do you think they could shave off? You can't get all that much smaller than the 35 and 50 summicrons.

Sorry I was drunk.

I guess I wouldn't mind seeing the rangefinder concept taken somewhere new, like an inexpensive digital rangefinder.

I like how Leica has stuck to their traditional design and kept the rangefinder going for so long, where would we be without them.

 

[MP/CLE]

Thanks for the update, StuartR, I have just put off my a la carte purchase with the idea of the new mD bouncing around in my head... I'm not saying I won't buy the a la carte, but rethinking my purchase/use strategy. All the previous Leica products ( I even like the m5) have been exceptional and with the time apparently put into the development of this new mD, I get a pretty good feel about it.

 

[peter_n]

I read over on the German Leica forum that its going to be called the M8.

 

[Fedzilla_Bob]

You could call it the M1A1 and I would still gasp whenever I hear a price at 5k.

For 5k One could have a killin' dslr.

What is the form factor the the digital M? Will it compare to the current M offerings in size. If so you could ascribe the price to miniaturization.

 

[amateriat]

For 5k One could have a killin' dslr.

Or, in this case, a supposedly-killer dRF.

Choice can be good. 🙂


- Barrett

 

[Eric Boehm]

Its a shame that the rep. didn't specify if the framelines were to be used as "Digital MM-Equivalent" or "Film MM" framelines.

It would make sense to me that the framelines would cover what the sensor "sees" with the lens of xx focal length attached. That is, if a 28mm lens is mounted, the framelines would mark the area seen by the 1.33x sensor, or about the same as a 37mm lens frameline would be in a film body.

Using 28-90 framelines makes sense in that the three standard lens-lug sizes would still be usefull as well.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[RML]

It would make sense to me that the framelines would cover what the sensor "sees" with the lens of xx focal length attached. That is, if a 28mm lens is mounted, the framelines would mark the area seen by the 1.33x sensor, or about the same as a 37mm lens frameline would be in a film body.

Using 28-90 framelines makes sense in that the three standard lens-lug sizes would still be usefull as well.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

That's what happens with the framelines on the R-D1, though these you have to set by hand.

 

[jaapv]

It would make sense to me that the framelines would cover what the sensor "sees" with the lens of xx focal length attached. That is, if a 28mm lens is mounted, the framelines would mark the area seen by the 1.33x sensor, or about the same as a 37mm lens frameline would be in a film body.

Using 28-90 framelines makes sense in that the three standard lens-lug sizes would still be usefull as well.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

I am sure they will make the framelines consistent with the format, but Leica has a habit of talking in 35 mm equivalents. Thus the 28 mm framelines will cover about 35 mm focal length-field of view in a 35 mm filmcamera on the M8, effectively showing what the sensor covers and end up being called 35mm equivalent by Leica, thoroughly confusing everybody. This whole sensor-crop nonsense would be a lot more simple if we all took the diagonal of the covered field of view as a reference, like we do with tv's, monitor screens etc. If I said I was watching this forum on a *1.275 crop monitor*, it would not be very clear that I regard 17"arbitrarily as *full frame* nor that I have a 15" screen.