Some thoughts about resale value

[Socke]

Since some seem to be more concerned about the resale value of their cameras than other parameters, here is my take on resale value as part of a buying decisison.

My first SLR I bought in 1982 was a faithfull friend from the polar circle to the mediteranean sea and from China to the Domenican Republic. It withstand temperatures between -20°C and +40°C, tropical rain, polar snow, was bumped around on destroyers and frigates in storms and even a class 3 hurican.

I lost the wind lever at a festival in Bremen in 2000, replaced it with one from a destroyed FX-3 2000 I got with a lens and lost this in 2003. Lost the original Yashica winder when I tried to shoot our bathing activities in the middle of the atlantic (next land 4000 meters, direction down!) and hadn't tightend the screw enough.
Now I shoot it with a Contax 139 Winder. It still works and even the light seals and mirror damper are still in good condition.

It has earned it's place in the showcase.

 

[RML]

With that kind of legacy this camera should at least bring $10! 😛

 

[Will]

>>> shoot our bathing activities in the middle of the atlantic

I am worry about you Scoke...

 

[jonasv]

Your 20-year-old Yashica looks better than my 2-months-old Bessa!

Totally agree though, cameras are for taking pictures, as long as they're good at that I couldn't care less about anything else.

 

[Socke]

>>> shoot our bathing activities in the middle of the atlantic

I am worry about you Scoke...

You have to try that, swimming in the middle of an ocean. Some 100 nautical miles west of the azores.

 

[Will]

Is not easier to have those experiences...

Was chatting with a friend this morning around 4am, on the topic of drifting around the world, like those backpackers...

That's lifes!

We asian people just don't have that culture, we are both 26, and we just got tied down in work/family, those kind of craps..

I guess everybody have a little adventurer inside of them.

 

[telenous]

Socke, is it so unreasonable to take into account the resale value of a camera? Just to give an example, perhaps the only reason the M8 is within my financial reach is that if I sell a big part of my existing gear it will fetch about 80% of its original cost.

BTW that Yashica of yours looks really cool.

 

[oftheherd]

My first Yashica SLR was a TL Super in late 70, early 71. It still works. My first foray into the Contax/Yashica mount was a Contax 139Q and T* f/1.4 lens. I almost immediately bought an FX-3 as a backup and to take the other T* lens I bought. The 139Q died, the FX3 is still working and the backup to the FX-103's I bought to replace the 139Q. They were purchased of the 'bay and still work also. I decided to replace the leather from Japan. I will let you know how that goes. Do you really use the winder that much? I have one still for the Contax and another for the FX-103. For the weight, I seem to prefer not using them most of the time.

But aren't those Yashica/Contax cameras mostly great? And the Contax T* lenses, as least the two that I have are superb!

Edit: I don't buy anything I don't intend to keep, so I guess I don't worry about resale value either. Actually that's not exactly true. I have bought a couple of things because I got them so cheap, intending to sell them. Haven't yet though.

 

[Socke]

telenous, not for me. I just don't care about resale value. I try to keep my gear in as good a condition as possible but shit happens. They aquire dings, scratches, brightmarks and the like through use and one day I'll get something newer to replace the worn out camera.

If I had the monetary value in mind I wouldn't dare to take a camera to the places where I go.
Lately I was very angry when somebody spilled beer on my 17-35 I use on the dSLR, on the other hand, that is what you can expect on an event with some 30,000 drunks 🙂
A friend of mine broke the foot of his Canon 580ex flash which was mounted to a 1DMkII at a press conference, his first reaction was calling me so he could get another flash fast. I live a couple 100 yards from the place where this happend.
Another friend of mine is a PJ specialized on what we call "Blue Light", i.E. accidents, fires, bank robberies etc.pp., he shot a documentary about the local chapter of the Hells Angels and when they saw him shooting he had to get away realy fast. One Canon 1d and a 24-70L fell victim but he saved the CF card.
The same guy broke the mount out of a then 3 month old Canon D30 when he stumbled while shooting a horse race with a 400/2.8, next day he got a new camera, the lens was fine.

Luckily I'm not into this type of shooting, but I got used to what can, and will, happen.
I've seen PJs at sports events dropping a lens so that they can mount another lens as fast as possible to get the shot.

OTOH, I use protective filters most of the time, have lens caps on the unused lenses and my Zeiss lenses are all stored in their pouches, when I work PJ style I do it with my DSLR and "cheap" Sigma lenses which I may just drop into my bags padded inserts.
It may take a couple of decades but in the long run I'll break my equipment and then there is no resale value 🙂

 

[Bertram2]

Since some seem to be more concerned about the resale value of their cameras than other parameters, here is my take on resale value as part of a buying decisison.
M.

Volker, the Yashicas always were much better than their reputation, not suited tho for those who needed "professional" tools. ;-)

Leaving aside that like you I don't buy my gear to sell it and buy other stuff,
one fact is always overseen in this resale value discussion.

Selling an M7 5 years down the road , bought now for 3300,-, with a loss of 20% (too optimistic IMO) would mean € 660,-., which is a new R3a.
Resale value maybe looks high for some products, but the absolute loss isn't low anyway.

Not to speak of the coast of the dead capital, adds ( at 6% interest) about € 1100 ,- , in total € 1660,- at least.

So buying a M7 and selling it after 5 years with a super resale value of 80% (if at all achievable) is the economical equivalent to throwing a R3a on the junkyard every 20 months.
So far my contribution about the resale value argument for products which cost 3 to 5 times more than a comparable product. 😀

bertram
"Mamme kaaf mers, isch habb lang dran !!" 😀

 

[Socke]

oftheherd, I have to use the winder, there's no wind lever on the camera 🙂

When I use a film SLR nowadays it is the 167mt and very seldom the RTS. We had the RTS in the navy and I bought one when they where replaced by FX-103s.

Hm, this long weekend I have to find some time to scan some of my shots from the 80s. Went through the albums recently and there are some pictures from the time when I didn't know nothing about DoF, CoC, bokeh etc.pp. which I like much better than what I do now.

 

[Kevin]

Like jewelry and other functional investments, a camera's resale value is important to most. It doesn't change anything if you have a minority opinion.

 

[telenous]

Socke, great story about your friend and Hell's Angels. I imagine if I was to shoot something like that I would grab a cheap but able camera, like the DSLR and the Sigma lenses you mention.

I have absolutely no quibbles with people who buy their cameras to keep them until they surrender their mortal coil. I would probably do the same if money was not an object. But as it is, resale value is a concern, and a real parametre at that.

Bertram your points are well-taken and you 're quite right about the loss of real value with resale in the way you frame it. And it is easy to get into a sense of false economy with this reselling business. Here's an example of my own. I bought about two years back a Panasonic Lumix for £375.00. Six months ago I sold it for £200. I was annoyed to have to sell it for approx. half of what I had to pay originally for it but that's how it was. The net loss was £175.00. Now, a few months back, and as I entered rangefinderdome I bought a Zeiss Planar for £500 (partly financed by the Lumix sale). Just over a month ago I resold it for £340.00. Here the net loss was £160.00. Of the two, the case where one seems to have come worse off is the sale of the Lumix, since it was sold for nearly half the original price. But that's just plain false, since the net loss was nearly identical in both cases!

But these two are examples of a case where someone (I in this case) has resold something that was actually bought new. I have found that in other cases where I bought mint condition, second hand glass or camera bodies the resale value is a conservative 80%, perhaps higher.

All in all, the first lesson learned in rangefinder territory was (for me): buy used, buy mint.

Cheers,

 

[Socke]

Buy used is what I do with rangefinders, too. Not allways mint 🙂

My financial planings are made around a trip to Brazil for next years carnaval. This will cost me less than a M8 but more than a ZI with a 50 Planar 🙂

I want to spent two weeks in a warmer region this autumn as well, but I might trade two weeks in Cuba against a Canon 5d, we'll see.

Oh, and I have a motorcycle with unknown resale value, it's rarely sold, which cost me three times the new price in spareparts in the last 24 years 😉

 

[ch1]

Like jewelry and other functional investments, a camera's resale value is important to most. It doesn't change anything if you have a minority opinion.

I think that the concern with resale value of camera gear is much greater now than in the past. It's true that years ago a number of shooters, particularly pros, would trade-in gear at the local camera shop for a new model now and again. But I think most non-pro shooters in the past were "buy and hold" types.

Now, with eBay and Antiques Roadshow etc. people are much more "tuned in" to what the value is of items as they age. Consequently, more now than before, when folks buy new gear, the possible eventual resale value has become an important consideration.

And this is where the problem with digi-gear arises. With rare exceptions, tech gear just obsoletes and rapidly loses value. It is one reason why the expected price of the M8 "shocks" more than if it were a film camera. Yes, it will be a Leica and thus have a certain cachet. But in a year or so it's technology will be obsolete (as will that of contemporary digitals now in the marketplace) and it will have lost considerable value.

I think that the M8 will be a medium-term savior for Leica - there is a very large number of folks out there who will pay handsomely for the Leica+digital equation. But I doubt that these cameras will hold the same strong re-sale value that has traditionally been the case with Leica's film offerings.

 

[rvaubel]

I think the resale value of digital camera bodies may start to maintain value better as the technology matures. The Megapixel War seems to be subsiding. Cameras need to improve more in terms of dynamic range, ISO and noise issues than more MB"s. Also I see cameras diversafing into more nitch areas, i.e. rangefinders, rather than only two choices, SLR or Point n Shoot. The market has of neccessity been kind of crazy during the developmental years. But I think that now cameras are available in the 8 to 16MB range, that will be about it.
That being said, camera bodies will always depreciate faster than lenses. But I dont see any reason to every get rid of my R-D1 or my 20D. Even if I wanted a full frame DSLR or a M8 (and I do, just not enough $), I would see no reason to sell my old bodies. They do what they do just fine.
I forgot my R3a. I love her too.

Rex

 

[oftheherd]

oftheherd, I have to use the winder, there's no wind lever on the camera 🙂

...

😀 OK, I get it. I would do the same in that case.

 

[Sparrow]

OM1 1972 £100, 13,000 images £0.01 each,
Bessa 2005 £400 1,800 images £0.22 each
Bessa L yesterday £50 no images, £50 for no good reason, or am I missing something?

 

[Socke]

OM1 1972 £100, 13,000 images £0.01 each,
Bessa 2005 £400 1,800 images £0.22 each
Bessa L yesterday £50 no images, £50 for no good reason, or am I missing something?

That's it, and all the memories which go with the pictures and the camera.

I just send a Robot Royal 36 to be repaired, much more money than what I would spend on one of my Contax Gs, but it was my fathers camera which is much more important to me than money.