Some thoughts on insuring camera gear

[bmattock]

With some recent threads on damaged / lost / stolen equipment, and with recent news about catastrophic damage due to natural disasters like floods and hurricanes and so on, I thought it might be worth mentioning insurance.

I am not an insurance agent, I have no ax to grind, and this is only for people in the USA; insurance may work very differently in other countries.

First, it is always worthwhile to speak with your insurance agent from time to time to review your coverage. You may wish to increase coverage, since times changes and people tend to accumulate items of value over time. You may wish to modify deductibles or add riders to cover especially valuable items or certain types of risk that your policy may not currently cover.

Most homeowner's policies do not cover flood damage caused by natural events like weather. That's a separate policy and although it isn't usually terribly expensive, most people don't have it and discover this to their chagrin only after suffering a loss.

Many policies also do not cover flooding due to sewer backups. The insurance companies will off the coverage and it's not expensive typically, but in many cases if you do not ask for it, they won't try to sell it to you, and again, if the sewer backs up and floods the basement and damages your property, you may not be covered.

Sometimes there are limits on the amount of coverage for a certain type of item, like jewelry, firearms, electronics, or other high-cost small items, which can include camera gear. You could have a large policy with a high dollar value but still find that there is a cap on any given type of claim, so check wth your agent. You can always get coverage for more, but you have to ask for it (and pay for it of course).

Many people do not realize that their homeowners or renters policy may cover them when they are away from home, even against things like theft or loss/damage of photographic equipment. There can be deductibles that make it not worth making a claim, but you should talk to your agent and review your policy and ask questions about things like that to find out.

Finally, there are two distinctly different types of policy, Actual Cash Value vs. Replacement Cost. A lot of people have no idea what the two are or why it's important to know which one they have.

Actual Cash Value is a type of policy that replaces lost or damaged or stolen covered items on a depreciated scaled based on age. Replacement Cost will pay to actually replace like with like - meaning if you lose a camera you get the money to replace that with a camera of comparable capability, regardless of what the older camera may have been worth at the time due to things like shutter count, depreciation, etc.

Most people would say they would want Replacement Cost if all things were equal, but of course Replacement Cost insurance costs more. The question for you and your agent is whether or not that coverage is available to you and how much more it costs, and if you're willing to pay that or just assume the risk of loss yourself.

Here's a good link that explains it:

https://www.eqgroup.com/acv_explained/

All of the above is for people who are NOT running a photographic business either out of their home or from a different location. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax, and yes, you definitely need specialized insurance for that. Even for things like liability if you get sued by a client or if a model trips and falls on a cable or something, not just the loss of equipment.

Hope that is helpful. My wife and I review our policy annually. It's really worth doing, you never know what you might discover and decide to make a change. Like a recent inheritance of a valuable piece of jewelry; we discovered that by itself it blew past the modest cap we had on our homeowner's policy for jewelry. However, after thinking it over we decided not to increase the cap because we decided the risk was preferable to us to the increased cost of raising the cap - but you may make a different decision, and our decision may change the next time we review our policy. That's why it is important to know and not to just hope everything turns out OK.

 

[raid]

I added a personal articles insurance to our home owners insurance. I limited the coverage to M8, M9, SWC and some lenses. Ask for a replacement value coverage.

 

[Roger Hicks]

And of course many insurers will try to weasel out of claims, or of course simply deny that you were ever insured. When I went to renew my Allstate insurance after the first year (no claims) they said, "No, we can't renew it, and you never were actually insured." When I asked for my money back they refused.

Cheers,

R.

 

[raid]

I used to have insurance with State Farm. My Canon F1N with a Canon 300mm lens fell into the Gulf of Mexico after a strong wave hit my tripod. They first tried to get the camera and lens repaired, but then they sent me a good amount of money to buy a replacement F1N and 300mm lens.

 

[DwF]

Always carry with with? 😉

 

[Out to Lunch]

As an expatriate, I have given up on 'camera insurance' many moons ago. It's not worth the hassle.

 

[Calzone]

My experience with an insurance company when making a claim was like getting robbed a second time. Also was accused of fraud and other criminal activity.

BTW the Police are not like on TV: they pretty much were indifferent. Had difficulties in just getting a police report. Had to spoon feed the police clues and evidence. Had to point to tracks in the snow that led to my neighbor's apartment which was also broken into. NYPD at their worst. After my gal dialed 911, I actually beat the police to my apartment, which took about an hour due to a snowstorm.

I pretty much for about a year was a P.I. doing mucho leg work. Took about 6 months to get a check from the insurance company. I learned that much that was stolen was not covered, and the stuff that was insured was depreciated in a manner that made me think, "Why do I have insurance?"

It was about a year later that they caught two brothers and a cousin who were responsible for over 25 break-ins in Williamsburg Brooklyn. There was no restitution or justice because everything got plea-dealed. These guys already had records and were losers. On one case the one loser got probation and drug rehab.

Moral of the story: rent an apartment that has a steel door and a deadbolt that has no fire escape and is third floor or higher. Also rent in a newer building that has more advanced fire code. Many older rentals are dangerous fire traps. Don't rely on the insurance company or the police to protect you. Realize pretty much you are on your own.

Cal

 

[bmattock]

My experience with an insurance company when making a claim was like getting robbed a second time. Also was accused of fraud and other criminal activity.

I am sorry for your experience, but you are actually making the case here.

BTW the Police are not like on TV: they pretty much were indifferent. Had difficulties in just getting a police report. Had to spoon feed the police clues and evidence. Had to point to tracks in the snow that led to my neighbor's apartment which was also broken into. NYPD at their worst. After my gal dialed 911, I actually beat the police to my apartment, which took about an hour due to a snowstorm.

As an aside, I worked in law enforcement for many years before changing careers. Property crimes where the perpetrator is no longer present (known as a 'cold burglary') are a low priority for rapid police response. The dispatchers usually advise you to do what you can to preserve the evidence and wait patiently. Sorry, but people getting shot or run over, etc, do take priority over burglaries where the burglar has departed. I know it sucks, but resources are limited.

I pretty much for about a year was a P.I. doing mucho leg work. Took about 6 months to get a check from the insurance company. I learned that much that was stolen was not covered, and the stuff that was insured was depreciated in a manner that made me think, "Why do I have insurance?"

And this is the reason I would urge everyone to sit down with their agent on an annual basis and review their coverage and ask questions about what kind of replacement value they have. "If my camera gets stolen, what do you pay for and how much?" is a very valid question to ask before something happens.

It was about a year later that they caught two brothers and a cousin who were responsible for over 25 break-ins in Williamsburg Brooklyn. There was no restitution or justice because everything got plea-dealed. These guys already had records and were losers. On one case the one loser got probation and drug rehab.

Moral of the story: rent an apartment that has a steel door and a deadbolt that has no fire escape and is third floor or higher. Also rent in a newer building that has more advanced fire code. Many older rentals are dangerous fire traps. Don't rely on the insurance company or the police to protect you. Realize pretty much you are on your own.

Cal

We are all pretty much on our own, and it behooves us to consider that when making decisions. Protective measures are good. Having insurance is good. Evaluating risks and making decisions based on those risks is good. I like your idea about doors and deadbolts and so on. Recognizing that property crimes are a low priority for police is simply being realistic. And reviewing your insurance to find out what exactly is covered and to what extent is also a good thing, IMHO.

Very sorry for what you went through, I mean no disrespect.

 

[Calzone]

I am sorry for your experience, but you are actually making the case here.

As an aside, I worked in law enforcement for many years before changing careers. Property crimes where the perpetrator is no longer present (known as a 'cold burglary') are a low priority for rapid police response. The dispatchers usually advise you to do what you can to preserve the evidence and wait patiently. Sorry, but people getting shot or run over, etc, do take priority over burglaries where the burglar has departed. I know it sucks, but resources are limited.

And this is the reason I would urge everyone to sit down with their agent on an annual basis and review their coverage and ask questions about what kind of replacement value they have. "If my camera gets stolen, what do you pay for and how much?" is a very valid question to ask before something happens.

We are all pretty much on our own, and it behooves us to consider that when making decisions. Protective measures are good. Having insurance is good. Evaluating risks and making decisions based on those risks is good. I like your idea about doors and deadbolts and so on. Recognizing that property crimes are a low priority for police is simply being realistic. And reviewing your insurance to find out what exactly is covered and to what extent is also a good thing, IMHO.

Very sorry for what you went through, I mean no disrespect.

B,

You speak the truth. I for one would not want to be a law enforcer because it is somewhat a thankless job and dangerous. I mean no disrespect to those that serve the public and risk their lives. I'm sorry if my bad experience offend any who deserve much respect.

Your pointing out that your insurance should be reviewed annually is wise. Had I done that I would of not been surprised that so many belongings would not be covered.

Luckily my cameras were hidden away. My neighbor happen to be a wealthy single guy that was a graphic artist. He had mucho extensive high tech toys, and pretty much they emptied his entire apartment. He was probably out $30K-$40K.

My loft pretty much got an incidental quick pass. My high dollar guitar collection was somewhat hidden, as well as my camera gear.

Pretty much insurance is limited coverage, and there are many thoughtful things one can do to enhance security and safety that cost little. Even if you have insurance expect a loss. Keeping this in mind I for one do everything I can to prevent a loss, limit liability, and reduce risk.

I even do this on the street where I try to have my hands free just in case I need to defend myself. I'm surprised more bad things don't happen in NYC due to all the distracted people who are not aware of their surroundings reading an iPad while walking, and texting on their phones.

Something people should know is that basic renters insurance does not cover many of the small high dollar items that are small and of high value like jewelry, watches, and cameras. Records and receipts are also important.

Where I live now is likely the worst neighborhood in Madhattan (East Harlem), but I live on an upper floor, no fire escape, and the building was finished being constructed in 2008. I still pay for renter's insurance, but this is really just to cover an emergency situation that is unlikely to happen. I figure being burglarized again unlikely, and also a fire a low probability.

I think back to the row houses I have lived in in Brooklyn and in Queens to be vulnerable to fire and breakins, especially the over 100 year old house that had not been updated in decades.

Cal

 

[bmattock]

B,

You speak the truth. I for one would not want to be a law enforcer because it is somewhat a thankless job and dangerous. I mean no disrespect to those that serve the public and risk their lives. I'm sorry if my bad experience offend any who deserve much respect.

I certainly wasn't offended, and I quite understand your point of view, especially at the time that it happened.

Luckily my cameras were hidden away. My neighbor happen to be a wealthy single guy that was a graphic artist. He had mucho extensive high tech toys, and pretty much they emptied his entire apartment. He was probably out $30K-$40K.

My apartment in Denver was burglarized once when I was divorced and living alone. The burglar literally just walked up the fire escape and punched out a window square and opened the window. It was one of those converted mansions, and my apartment was what was once an attic.

My loft pretty much got an incidental quick pass. My high dollar guitar collection was somewhat hidden, as well as my camera gear.

I didn't have a lot of cameras then, just one, but they got it. They also got a lot of firearms that had been passed down to me from my father, grandfather, etc. Gone forever, I still feel the sting of that loss. I was insured and it was covered, but it really hurt. Money didn't bring them back.

What they did not get was what you experienced - things that were not in plain view. My wristwatches for example, and a few pistols that were not in the gun rack.

Pretty much insurance is limited coverage, and there are many thoughtful things one can do to enhance security and safety that cost little. Even if you have insurance expect a loss. Keeping this in mind I for one do everything I can to prevent a loss, limit liability, and reduce risk.

Agreed.

I even do this on the street where I try to have my hands free just in case I need to defend myself. I'm surprised more bad things don't happen in NYC due to all the distracted people who are not aware of their surroundings reading an IPAD while walking, and texting on their phones.

I am old now, but I am still a former Marine, former law enforcement, and I teach and am an adult student at a karate dojo several nights a week as a way to be able to defend myself as well as to stay in some kind of basic physical condition and fight my diabetes. I still would not say I could or even would defend myself against attack - it's for 'last resort' issues which I hope to never face. If I can avoid an attack by handing over valuables or running away, I'll always choose that first. Martial arts is for when they say "Get in the car, you're coming with me," or "I'm going to kill you even if you give me your stuff."

Something people should know is that basic renters insurance does not cover many of the small high dollar items that are small and of high value like jewelry, watches, and cameras. Records and receipts are also important.

You are absolutely correct, and I should have mentioned it. Receipts are best, but lists of items and serial numbers given to your agent BEFORE something happens is also good, as well as any photos of your property. As it happened, I was lucky enough to have a couple photos of a party I had had at my apartment and you could see some of my possessions in them. That was a lucky break for me.

Where I live now is likely the worst neighborhood in Madhattan (East Harlem), but I live on an upper floor, no fire escape, and the building was finished being constructed in 2008. I still pay for renter's insurance, but this is really just to cover an emergency situation that is unlikely to happen. I figure being burgerlized again unlikely, and also a fire a low probability.

I think back to the row houses I have lived in in Brooklyn and in Queens to be vulnerable to fire and breakins, especially the over 100 year old house that had not been updated in decades.

Cal

I live in a very modest house in a quiet neighborhood in SE Michigan now, where there is a very low crime rate and everyone watches out for each other; I'm very fortunate. But one must still practice awareness of one's surroundings and vigilance.

- Bill

 

[Dogman]

I have a personal articles policy with one of the biggest US insurers. I've had it for years, got it when I bought a lot of new Canon film equipment in the 1990s. Later on I bought a couple of Leica M6 bodies and a few lenses, calling the agent to have them added to the policy each time I bought a new piece. I would also call to update the policy and ask for the removal of other items as I got rid of them. After several years, a new agent took over my policies. In talking to her one day about another policy, I told her I had not received an updated list of articles insured in some time. When I was sent the list, I discovered the previous agent had failed to add any of the Leica equipment to the policy several years before. None of the Leica equipment was, in fact, insured. But I was still paying for insurance of some equipment the previous agent had been notified about my no longer owning.

I was lucky I had not needed to file any claims during this time.

 

[Calzone]

Bill,

First thank you for your service.

I'm 60 1/2, and as I age I too am feeling vulnerable. Both my mom and dad had Diabetes, so I fight this dual propensity by remaining fit and thin. Lately I have gotten into Baby Linhof's: heavy cameras. For one thing they are being sold cheap, and I joke that with every Linhof purchased comes a free gym membership.

Although 5'9", average height, you would call me a small man because I have the build of perhaps an athletic 15 year old. I don't look my age, and perhaps I look 15-20 years younger which is pretty remarkable.

What scares me the most is the stories I hear about where trophy killings happen as part of gang initiations. Also racial attacks where basically you could be fighting for your life.

I would like to share with you a time in the early 70's when that Rolling Stone song "Heartbreaker" was a hit. They tell a story of an incident of when the police of New York City chase a boy through a park, and in a case of mistaken identity put a bullet through his heart.

I remember this song profoundly because it almost happened to me. I lived in Nassau County suburbs in a town called Valley Stream that bordered Queens. I was walking by myself late at night along the Queens border when a NYPD patrol car skid to a stop almost running me down. The cops jumped out with their guns drawn and trained on me.

Perhaps I was 14-15 years old. One cop made it clear that if I moved at all they would shoot. The other cop moved to where I could not view him. I was directed to listen carefully, reminded not to move, and told only to move when directed.

When asked for my I.D. I announced my wallet was in my left pocket, and when directed I showed them my I.D. What was odd is that these cops left as suddenly as they surprised me. No explaination, but I knew they were scared.

Asians during that time were rare. Even NYC's Chinatown was only 20K people, and in the suburbs of Long Island I stood out as a novelty. I was so novel that I knew of another Chinese guy by name who lived in Rosedale, Queens. My only explaination that made sense is that this other Chinese guy either killed a cop, shot a cop, or Kung-Fu'ed a cop.

These cops were that scared.

The Rolling Stone song is reported to be based on a true story where a kid was shot by an undercover cop in Queens. The boy was with his father, and they thought they were being robbed.

A second time NYPD had their guns trained on me was during a robbery. This was in the mid seventies before there were SWAT Teams, and the cops had revolvers. I happen to be working the cash register at a McDonalds in Rosedale, Queens when 4 men came in with guns to rob the place. Things got ugly; and I heard Hector, one of the Managers, getting pistol whipped because he would not open the safe.

One of the perps ran out, another manager followed him, and then I heard a gunshot. No one was hit. It was very surreal because the customers were not effected. They just wanted their hamburgers. To the customers it was just another day in Queens it seemed.

So when the cops arrived they yelled freeze, but everyone but me jumped to the floor. All the guns seemed trained on me because the guy who was beating Hector was standing right behind me when the cops stormed in. Luckily his hands held a box of cash, the safe contents, and the pistol lay on top and was not in his hand.

Had he held the gun in his hand, I likely would have either been a hostage, or been ventilated by friendly fire.

They caught two of the 4 perps. One officer held the now cuffed pistol whipper captive, when Hector jumped the counter, threw the perp who beat him to the floor, and started kicking him repeatedly in the head. Meanwhile the cop and I just watched. Finally the cop responsible for the perp said, "That's enough," but he said it so politely that it almost was like saying, "O.K. just one more and make it a good one."

So the third time I could of gotten shot I was around 18. I went into a bakery by my house on Central Avenue in Valley Stream. I saw this girl behind the counter, and she said she was just robbed. She directed me to go look for the guy with the hat.

I followed her command not knowing that this robber had a gun. It was later in talking to the police that I found out. I saw a guy with a hat, followed him to his car, and took down the license plate. This was not the guy. The cops would explain to me that it likely was some average Joe who lost his job, had kids, and needed some money to buy his kids Christmas presents.

So another time where I was in the wrong place at the wrong time also happened when I was just 18. Somehow a riot broke out in a suburban park and I somehow happened to be there.

It was an odd 4th of July because it was a cloudless blue sky and the weather was not humid. Kids my age went to Salsbury Park next to the Nassau County Colleseum to wait for the fireworks when it got dark. Young kids bought coolers and picnicked throwing Fresby's.

I went to the bathroom which was in the back of a bandshell near dusk. When I walked in a drunk threw a bottle into the bandshell and the acoustics amplified the pop of it breaking. After I pee'd some other drunks had rounded up garbage bags of bottles and were breaking them. At this point it sounded like matts of fire crackers going off.

Going back towards my friends I did not take notice of the Nassau Police forming a picket as I walked towards them in full riot gear. When they marched the line towards me I watch this girl and boy holding hands also walking towards me. They were in a state of bliss displaying their love with the world, and that is when I heard this awful distinct sound of a night stick resonating off of the boy's skull.

He collapsed to the ground, and the girl knelt over him not knowing what happened. Then I heard that awful sound again. The girl's head laid on her boyfriend's chest. The cop looked up and seem surprised that I witnessed him clubbing innocent people. I stood there frozen and defiant looking him right in the face.

He pointed with his night stick and commanded me, "Walk." I knew that when I turned my back to him I would likely get struck down, so I mentioned that my friends with the car are behind him. Again he said, "Walk," and pointing his night stick.

Pretty much all he had to do was take a step and swing, but I figure by speaking to him somehow made me a human, and he could not hit me. I escaped harm, but I ended up hitchhiking my way home.

The thing with these life threatening situations is hopefully one makes all the right decisions. People freeze, instincts kick in. Fight or flee that night in the case of mistaken identity with those two cops could of been another tragic killing. The cops were not the only people scared that night.

Pretty much I don't understand how I got to be this old. I have seen more than my fair share of violance.

Sorry for the rant.

Cal

 

[x-ray]

A gun safe is very inexpensive to buy and if anchored in the floor ( quite easy) it's very secure. I have two large safes and don't worry about loss of cameras or guns.

 

[bmattock]

A gun safe is very inexpensive to buy and if anchored in the floor ( quite easy) it's very secure. I have two large safes and don't worry about loss of cameras or guns.

Yes, it is a very good thing to have. Back in the day when I was burgled and lost many of my firearms, I was recovering from a recent divorce, my car had just be repossessed, and I was living in a $400 a month one bedroom apartment in the Capitol Hill area of Denver. I could afford renters insurance was glad I had it. I could not afford gun safes at that time.

 

[Calzone]

A gun safe is very inexpensive to buy and if anchored in the floor ( quite easy) it's very secure. I have two large safes and don't worry about loss of cameras or guns.

X-R,

Big gun safes also offer some protection from fire. Renting and moving safes as a gentrifier who lives with impermanance safes are not practical, but I would love that level of security.

My problem is that I also have a vintage guitar and bass collection, and also a vintage amp collection. These "hard assets" are too large for a gun safe.

Cal

 

[Godfrey]

I hate insurance companies with such a violent passion that I would simply rather not own anything that I cannot afford to lose at any time.

I value my possessions, but I don't care about what they cost. 🙂

 

[Calzone]

Yes, it is a very good thing to have. Back in the day when I was burgled and lost many of my firearms, I was recovering from a recent divorce, my car had just be repossessed, and I was living in a $400 a month one bedroom apartment in the Capitol Hill area of Denver. I could afford renters insurance was glad I had it. I could not afford gun safes at that time.

Bill,

I have lived also under marginal conditions. I think due to our experiences of having been burgularized we just do as much as we can to prevent bad things from happening. Pretty much this is all we can do.

I now cringe on the lack of safety and security I have lived with in the past. We never really ever recover from our losses, insurance or not.

Some of my treasures I expect as I age will become liabilities. Perhaps time to sell for cash, gold, or some form of portable hard asset.

Nice to know that hopefully those hard times are behind us.

Cal

 

[willie_901]

The utility of insurance is a risk assessment problem.

The impact of a potential loss is compared to the expense for insurance. Homes and vehicles are insured because the financial impact of a loss is much, much greater than the utility of the money we pay for premiums.

"...a poor man should buy insurance, but a rich man should not unless his assessment of expected loss is much greater than the insurance company’s. Indeed, if your present fortune is much greater than any likely loss, then your utility for money is nearly as linear as the insurance company’s, in the region where it matters; and you may as well be your own insurance company."

Probability Theory: The Logic of Science by. E. T. Jaynes, p 401

We are all self-insured to some extent.

Photography gear insurance has value for some and would be wasteful for others.

How much would it actually change your life if you had to repurchase the cameras and lenses you use? The greater the impact, the more insurance becomes valuable.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . How much would it actually change your life if you had to repurchase the cameras and lenses you use? . . . .

Dear Willie,

And, of course, would you actually repurchase all (or indeed any) of them?

Cheers,

R.

 

[MCTuomey]

Good thread - thanks to OP for starting it.

I stopped insuring my gear and myself when I stopped shooting for reward. My problem is I have accumulated gear to the point that, if I had a full loss, I could not replace it. But I keep thinking that, since it's not all in the same location all the time, that my exposure to loss is less than the whole, and manageable. And also that I wouldn't really need to replace all of it anyway.