S
StuartR
Guest
I am putting this in the general discussion, because if I put it just in either the ZI or Leica M forums, I don't think as many people will read it. In any case, I was at Tony Rose's yesterday to pick up some lighting stuff (he has an amazing deal on Hensel Integra Pro kits if anyone is looking for lighting). I got a chance to take a look at one of the new black Zeiss Ikons. I should state up front that I don't think I have any real bias with regards to camera makers. I use everything from Leica to Canon, Contax, Konica, Hasselblad, Horseman, Voigtlander etc etc. If the equipment gives good results and good user experience, I am happy to use it. I have two Zeiss Ikon lenses that I love and use alongside my Leica lenses.
So, my impressions: The first thing I noticed was the finder. It is larger than my M7 and MP finders, and it is crisper. The rangefinder patch is very clear and contrasty and does a great job in focusing. The 28mm framelines in particular are much easier to use on the ZI than on the .72 MP. The .85 M7 does not have them, of course. I suppose the numbering on the framelines is useful to some users, but it makes no difference to me...I am used to them, and I don't get confused. One area where I feel the M7 has a marked advantage is in the shutter speed display and metering information. The Zeiss Ikon has adopted a shutter speed information system like the Hexar RF, where the shutter speed is displayed vertically along the right hand side of the finder. In AE mode the lit number is the shutter speed, and in manual mode the solid number is the speed and the blinking number (if present) is the meter's value. One of the problems I have with this system is that it is the first thing to disappear if your eye is not perfectly centered. The ZI appears better in this respect than the Hexar RF, but it is still harder to see than the information in the M6/MP/M7 finders which have exposure information in the center of the finder.
The M7 uses a different system where in AE mode the shutter speeds are all displayed in the same place by a system of LED's in the bottom middle of the finder. The advantage is that it is easier to see, and it lists all speeds in half steps (though the shutter is stepless) from 1/1000th to 32 seconds. In manual mode the M7 uses an arrow and dot system like the M6TTL and MP. The set ISO is shown when you turn on the camera, and exposure compensation is indicated by a small blinking LED (which annoys some people). The VF will even countdown on long exposures and count up on Bulb...this can be very useful. It even brightens and darkens based on ambient light. It is a very well thought out and well executed system.
So, in terms of the viewfinder, the Zeiss wins for me on clarity and ease of seeing the framelines, while the Leica system of conveying exposure information is significantly better for me. This issue is a toss up -- some will find the broader view and slightly greater clarity steers them towards the ZI, and others will find that the M7's simpler and more straightforward exposure information will make them prefer the Leica finder. One quirk is that the ZI's choice in metering information makes it more difficult to exploit the 1/3 stop aperture rings on their lenses...at least in manual mode.
Another big issue in the finders is the available framelines. The Zeiss has framelines for 28/35/50/85mm lenses, while the .72 leicas have 28/35/50/75/90/135 framelines. This of course reflects the difference in the makers' lens offerings. I very frequently shoot with 75mm lenses and somewhat less frequently with a 135mm lens, so their absence in the ZI might be an issue. Users of 90mm lenses should be able to make do with the 85mm framelines without too much difficulty.
For me, the VF is among the most important parts, so I will spend less time on the rest of the body. Overall the fit and finish is excellent. Next to the Leica it certainly feels lighter, but it does not feel like a toy. The camera is light but solid and it fits in the hand as well as a Leica. The winding action is not as smooth as any of the Leicas I have used, but it is more than adequate -- better than the Bessas and most manual SLR's I have used. Shutter sound is slightly more noticeable than the cloth shuttered Leicas, but it is quiter than the Hexar RF, and generally it is quite quiet. The shutter release had a decidedly different feel. It is much more like the release on the Hexar RF, AF, and quite like the release on the Mamiya 7II, only not quite as much of a hair trigger. It felt more "electronic". In order to engage the metering, the half press was lighter than on the MP or M7, and the travel was shorter to release the shutter. The release itself did not feel mechanical. The only way I can describe it is to say you can't feel it coming...with most mechanical shutter releases (Leica or otherwise), you can feel the friction building up right before the shutter releases, but with electronic releases like on the Mamiya 7II, Hexar RF, Canon T90 etc, there is no real feedback. You just need to get used to how much pressure the release requires. This is not a disadvantage per se, just a difference.
On the topic of shutter releases, another difference is in the manner of engaging AE lock. On the M7, the shutter speed is locked by pressing halfway down on the shutter release, from there it will hold that shutter speed even if you change the aperture. The ZI uses a small button in the middle back of the camera. Some users love this, I am not one of them. Every camera I have ever used other than the ZI uses the M7 method, so I just prefer it...it is more instinctive to me. My hands are not that big either, so it is easier for me to reach the shutter button with my index finger than it is to reach the AE lock button on the ZI with my thumb.
Most of the other design features don't really concern me either way. The ZI has the rewind on the bottom, which while a bit odd does not strike me as being much of a problem. Swing back loading is easier in most cases, but I have never really minded the film loading on the later Leicas...I can even load them faster than I can certain fussier swing back cameras. The location and function of the exposure compensation and ISO dials are not a big deal to me...though it is nice to have DX on occasion. The only other issue I can think of is the battery one. While it is very rare for a reasonably prepared photog to run out of batteries with either of these cameras, if you do the M7 will work at 1/60th and 1/125th, and the ZI is dead in the water. The M6/MP of course will work at all speeds.
Overall I would say that the Zeiss Ikon is a fantastic camera that will serve many a photographer well. The value for the price is excellent. For my part, however, I will stick with my Leicas. Personally, I like the way that they handle better than the ZI, though both are great cameras. The biggest difference for me is my preference in terms of viewfinder information and in smoothness of operation. All the dials, winding, and shutter release feel smoother and more finely tuned to me. It is a difference of feel, not of function. Aesthetically, I think the Leica is the more pleasing camera, but that has very little influence on my decision. In any case, I would be careful about saying one is a better value than the other, as I think the difference in price is dictated as much by differing philosophies as by market conditions. The Leica is built as much for the experience of using it and owning it as for its utility, while the ZI is a more straightforward camera that is built solely for use. The Leica is built largely by hand and uses more traditional components like brass, leather and silk, and this is noticeable in the overall construction and smoothness of operation. The Zeiss on the other hand was built of lighter materials that are durable, but slightly harsher in use -- aluminum and titanium for example.
Well, in any case, I suppose I will leave it at that. That was totally epic. Excuse me if I was channelling Erwin Puts for awhile there. In any case, those are my impressions. Two very good cameras either way.
So, my impressions: The first thing I noticed was the finder. It is larger than my M7 and MP finders, and it is crisper. The rangefinder patch is very clear and contrasty and does a great job in focusing. The 28mm framelines in particular are much easier to use on the ZI than on the .72 MP. The .85 M7 does not have them, of course. I suppose the numbering on the framelines is useful to some users, but it makes no difference to me...I am used to them, and I don't get confused. One area where I feel the M7 has a marked advantage is in the shutter speed display and metering information. The Zeiss Ikon has adopted a shutter speed information system like the Hexar RF, where the shutter speed is displayed vertically along the right hand side of the finder. In AE mode the lit number is the shutter speed, and in manual mode the solid number is the speed and the blinking number (if present) is the meter's value. One of the problems I have with this system is that it is the first thing to disappear if your eye is not perfectly centered. The ZI appears better in this respect than the Hexar RF, but it is still harder to see than the information in the M6/MP/M7 finders which have exposure information in the center of the finder.
The M7 uses a different system where in AE mode the shutter speeds are all displayed in the same place by a system of LED's in the bottom middle of the finder. The advantage is that it is easier to see, and it lists all speeds in half steps (though the shutter is stepless) from 1/1000th to 32 seconds. In manual mode the M7 uses an arrow and dot system like the M6TTL and MP. The set ISO is shown when you turn on the camera, and exposure compensation is indicated by a small blinking LED (which annoys some people). The VF will even countdown on long exposures and count up on Bulb...this can be very useful. It even brightens and darkens based on ambient light. It is a very well thought out and well executed system.
So, in terms of the viewfinder, the Zeiss wins for me on clarity and ease of seeing the framelines, while the Leica system of conveying exposure information is significantly better for me. This issue is a toss up -- some will find the broader view and slightly greater clarity steers them towards the ZI, and others will find that the M7's simpler and more straightforward exposure information will make them prefer the Leica finder. One quirk is that the ZI's choice in metering information makes it more difficult to exploit the 1/3 stop aperture rings on their lenses...at least in manual mode.
Another big issue in the finders is the available framelines. The Zeiss has framelines for 28/35/50/85mm lenses, while the .72 leicas have 28/35/50/75/90/135 framelines. This of course reflects the difference in the makers' lens offerings. I very frequently shoot with 75mm lenses and somewhat less frequently with a 135mm lens, so their absence in the ZI might be an issue. Users of 90mm lenses should be able to make do with the 85mm framelines without too much difficulty.
For me, the VF is among the most important parts, so I will spend less time on the rest of the body. Overall the fit and finish is excellent. Next to the Leica it certainly feels lighter, but it does not feel like a toy. The camera is light but solid and it fits in the hand as well as a Leica. The winding action is not as smooth as any of the Leicas I have used, but it is more than adequate -- better than the Bessas and most manual SLR's I have used. Shutter sound is slightly more noticeable than the cloth shuttered Leicas, but it is quiter than the Hexar RF, and generally it is quite quiet. The shutter release had a decidedly different feel. It is much more like the release on the Hexar RF, AF, and quite like the release on the Mamiya 7II, only not quite as much of a hair trigger. It felt more "electronic". In order to engage the metering, the half press was lighter than on the MP or M7, and the travel was shorter to release the shutter. The release itself did not feel mechanical. The only way I can describe it is to say you can't feel it coming...with most mechanical shutter releases (Leica or otherwise), you can feel the friction building up right before the shutter releases, but with electronic releases like on the Mamiya 7II, Hexar RF, Canon T90 etc, there is no real feedback. You just need to get used to how much pressure the release requires. This is not a disadvantage per se, just a difference.
On the topic of shutter releases, another difference is in the manner of engaging AE lock. On the M7, the shutter speed is locked by pressing halfway down on the shutter release, from there it will hold that shutter speed even if you change the aperture. The ZI uses a small button in the middle back of the camera. Some users love this, I am not one of them. Every camera I have ever used other than the ZI uses the M7 method, so I just prefer it...it is more instinctive to me. My hands are not that big either, so it is easier for me to reach the shutter button with my index finger than it is to reach the AE lock button on the ZI with my thumb.
Most of the other design features don't really concern me either way. The ZI has the rewind on the bottom, which while a bit odd does not strike me as being much of a problem. Swing back loading is easier in most cases, but I have never really minded the film loading on the later Leicas...I can even load them faster than I can certain fussier swing back cameras. The location and function of the exposure compensation and ISO dials are not a big deal to me...though it is nice to have DX on occasion. The only other issue I can think of is the battery one. While it is very rare for a reasonably prepared photog to run out of batteries with either of these cameras, if you do the M7 will work at 1/60th and 1/125th, and the ZI is dead in the water. The M6/MP of course will work at all speeds.
Overall I would say that the Zeiss Ikon is a fantastic camera that will serve many a photographer well. The value for the price is excellent. For my part, however, I will stick with my Leicas. Personally, I like the way that they handle better than the ZI, though both are great cameras. The biggest difference for me is my preference in terms of viewfinder information and in smoothness of operation. All the dials, winding, and shutter release feel smoother and more finely tuned to me. It is a difference of feel, not of function. Aesthetically, I think the Leica is the more pleasing camera, but that has very little influence on my decision. In any case, I would be careful about saying one is a better value than the other, as I think the difference in price is dictated as much by differing philosophies as by market conditions. The Leica is built as much for the experience of using it and owning it as for its utility, while the ZI is a more straightforward camera that is built solely for use. The Leica is built largely by hand and uses more traditional components like brass, leather and silk, and this is noticeable in the overall construction and smoothness of operation. The Zeiss on the other hand was built of lighter materials that are durable, but slightly harsher in use -- aluminum and titanium for example.
Well, in any case, I suppose I will leave it at that. That was totally epic. Excuse me if I was channelling Erwin Puts for awhile there. In any case, those are my impressions. Two very good cameras either way.
Likewise today I felt compelled to order expensive new Pirellis all-round for the Bimmer, old ones having gone smooth. Probably a clean used 35 'cron's worth there... Depending on the tax outcome, I may eventually recover to the level of a Zeiss-Ikon body once the prices for the black finish diminish. 
