vytasn
Established
Since a used A7r can be had for about $1000 USD versus a new A7Rii, I have been thinking about the A7r. I would use it only for landscape and still life, so I need resolution but the IBIS would not be that important to me (I think) and I would use something different for a walking around camera. What does everyone think?
wafflecakee
Well-known
I'd say go with the original and put the cash into a 16-35 FE.
YYV_146
Well-known
I would go with the A7rII. Let me explain:
1. The 7rII has a much quieter shutter than the 7r. Shutter shock is a concern with long lenses on the 7r. I like long lenses for landscapes - but YMMV.
2. The 7rII is much more robustly built. The 7r mount might not take a 15mm F2.8 or 70-400 very well. Even if the mount holds, flex might be a concern that potentially lowers resolution.
3. The 7rII has much better DR at ISO 400 and above. Ditto for color depth. The files are simply much better - which is important for landscapes.
Whether these factors are worth $2,000 is up to you. And of course, from time to time anyone might find himself without a tripod - and then IBIS shines.
vytasn
Established
This is what I am having a lot of trouble with.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Seems pretty straight forward to me. Victor really lays it out. Much of his reasoning I've read about before. But, it's your money and you know best how to spend it.
uhoh7
Veteran
The A7r2 is far superior to the original, but just waiting 6 months will save you a grand, because they loose value very fast.
The r2 BSI sensor makes much nicer colors, does not colorcast, vignettes far less.
It still has the 1.9mm coverglass which makes the native lenses a must for landscape. Frankly I would do the kolari on the r2 just to avoid the nightmare of finding good copies of the native lenses. With that mod (.8 cover glass) it will shoot leica glass great, or whatever you wan to put on it.
The r2 BSI sensor makes much nicer colors, does not colorcast, vignettes far less.
It still has the 1.9mm coverglass which makes the native lenses a must for landscape. Frankly I would do the kolari on the r2 just to avoid the nightmare of finding good copies of the native lenses. With that mod (.8 cover glass) it will shoot leica glass great, or whatever you wan to put on it.
esearing
Established
I waited - only $400-$500 less used. Still waiting' and my heart keeps hoping for someone giving away a Leica M .
gdi
Veteran
Yes, all the "experts" have been saying that the A7RII will be selling cheap in "x" months - still no significant retail price drop in about a year. I have an A7R and it produces beautiful images; if you are buying used it is a much better deal. But if you place higher priority on worrying about compression, shutter vibrations, fat/thin sensor glass, and need stabilization, then you'll need the A7RII. I'd like to get one for the stabilization and better AF, but it's just not worth the difference to me right now. Maybe a second 6 months will see bigger price drops.
Good luck...
taemo
eat sleep shoot
the A7R is great, however I have to agree with its issue of shutter shock, even on a tripod 1/60 to 1/250 with a long lens will not give you a sharp image, even with a 50mm from my experience.
Shutter shock and shutter shake are two totally separate things. Shutter shake / motion blur occurs at lower shutter speeds due to user error... shutter shock can occur at higher shutter speeds and it is not user error it is a shutter error.
gdi
Veteran
While I don't often shoot lenses longer than 50, my shots at 55 - 90 are generally sharp, even handheld. I think it is likely an overblown concern. I can live with it till I decide to upgrade to an A7RII...
YYV_146
Well-known
IMO with 1st gen A7 series bodies there is an expectation that they're placeholders for more mature products down the line. Adding to that the fact that Sony aggressively discounted them less than a year after release, and you end up with cheap used stock. I sold my kolari mod A7 for ~$950 less than what I paid for it, filter conversion costs included. Not a bad deal given how much photography I got out of it, but a lot of depreciation nonetheless.
As a revision to this question, my take is that the bulk of improvements are not immediately obvious. Some examples:
- The ability to set min and max auto ISO. Do this once for an event and you're set for the whole thing.
- Eye AF is by far the fastest way to shoot environmental portraits
- EVF color accuracy has improved significantly
- OOC colors also improved significantly. I shoot Raw+JPG and it definitely helps with culling files.
- Loseless RAW helps with extreme exposure contrast scenarios (fireworks, night long exposures)
- TTL accuracy seems to be improved as well as sync speed
- In the 7rII you can map silent shooting/hard EVF/LCD toggle to physical buttons. If they would also allow AF w/ shutter to be mapped, I'd never have to look at the menus again.
None of these alone is a dealbreaker, but taken together you're getting your money's worth in small increments. Sure, $2,700 is still steep, but it's not as if you're getting any more camera for the same money from Canon or Nikon.
vytasn
Established
Since I started this thread in January, I have ended up purchasing a Sony A7R as well as a Zeiss Loxia 21mm (and a carbon fiber tripod). I doubt that I would have been able to afford the Loxia if I had purchased the A7RII. The A7R has performed flawlessly and I am enjoying the extra detail in my landscape prints. Of course it would be nice to have a quieter shutter and IBIS, but they have not prevented me from getting the shots that I want. I am glad I did not wait for the price of the A7RII to come down, as mentioned above it seems to be holding its own.
coogee
Well-known
Congrats! I too think the 'shutter shock' issue is hugely overstated. As a relatively cheap 'digital back' to just about any lens you like, I think the a7r is a great deal. It's only a shame it too hasn't fallen in price more, or I'd have snaffled up one - which hints that perhaps waiting for an a7rII price drop would be a long wait.
A lot of the mk2 improvements are things that don't, to me at least, equate to benefits for landscape use - such as Auto ISO, IBIS, EVF qualities, autofocus etc.
No doubt it is a better camera and as a primary handheld camera, I can see how these kinds of features become more attractive.
For now have fun with the THUNK! of that shutter
I always thought of the a7r as something of a cult classic given its far lower original pricing and position at the time as a gateway to legacy glass options. The a7rII plays in a different field cost-wise.
A lot of the mk2 improvements are things that don't, to me at least, equate to benefits for landscape use - such as Auto ISO, IBIS, EVF qualities, autofocus etc.
No doubt it is a better camera and as a primary handheld camera, I can see how these kinds of features become more attractive.
For now have fun with the THUNK! of that shutter
I always thought of the a7r as something of a cult classic given its far lower original pricing and position at the time as a gateway to legacy glass options. The a7rII plays in a different field cost-wise.
As someone who had used this camera extensively, I can say that shutter shock is a fact. And when it ruins THE shot, you'll feel bad. That said, it only seems to occur at certain shutter speeds... and at this time, I can't remember which since I stopped using it. I still liked the camera though and, at times, think of getting another.
David_Manning
Well-known
I really thought I'd be getting the new Fuji X-T2, since I own Fuji glass and the X-T1 (and I'm getting WAY more interested in video). IBIS and adapters swayed me to a new A7RII.
So far, I like it, but there are LOT of menus to sift through, although it's very customizable and it seems once you figure out how to set if up for your own style of shooting, it'll be a very capable image maker. Since I am dabbling with video these days, I'll say that a fast EVF capable of clearing showing images in full sunlight at eye level is a great thing, as is focus peaking for fast racks. The real magic is in adapting nice Canon lenses I own, and sending the high-bitrate S-log2 into color correction. The dynamic range is terrific, and my own secret sauce it grading the color in Davinci Resolve with the Arri LUT. Looks like 35mm movie film...it's beautiful and not video-like in the least.
I'm struggling with the idea of investing in Sony-branded glass for the native phase-detection AF for stills and video.
So far, I like it, but there are LOT of menus to sift through, although it's very customizable and it seems once you figure out how to set if up for your own style of shooting, it'll be a very capable image maker. Since I am dabbling with video these days, I'll say that a fast EVF capable of clearing showing images in full sunlight at eye level is a great thing, as is focus peaking for fast racks. The real magic is in adapting nice Canon lenses I own, and sending the high-bitrate S-log2 into color correction. The dynamic range is terrific, and my own secret sauce it grading the color in Davinci Resolve with the Arri LUT. Looks like 35mm movie film...it's beautiful and not video-like in the least.
I'm struggling with the idea of investing in Sony-branded glass for the native phase-detection AF for stills and video.
Wuzwinder
Newbie
I own the A7r for a few years now, bought it before the A7rII came out and I was a little upset at myself for not waiting, but I was moving up from the NEX 7 and didn't know about the A7RII at the time, like many have mentioned if the price drops I might move up again but it hasn't as of yet, both the NEX 7 and the A7R I can use just about any glass I want and I have a love for old Zeiss, the price is cheap compared to new glass and it has its own characteristics that I like, if I want to shoot for more detail I'll use a Medium Format Camera/Film but for just wandering around and shooting pictures I like the A7R..maybe someday the price will drop but with my luck something else will come out even better... I don't have to be the first on the block with the newest shiniest toy, so patience Grasshopper patience.