Sony VS Fuji Mirrorless Comparison

[jsrockit]

Thanks, Mike. But wouldn't it be cool if Fuji or Sony started building a line of small manual focus lenses. They could hire Cosina to do it! 🙂

Well, Sony has the Zeiss Loxia and Voigtlander 40mm...

 

[Lss]

But wouldn't it be cool if Fuji or Sony started building a line of small manual focus lenses.

Nothing wrong with yet another line of lenses, but the easy solution is for Sony to offer one camera with a thin filter stack.

 

[Addy101]

Hmmm, I'm wondering if some people have an irrational dislike of Sony 😱

"For me Sony it the company that chases whatver they think is hot right now. And drop it tomorrow for whatever reason that came up when they got out of bed."
Sony stood by Betamax and the Digital Audio Tape even when nobody thought it was hot. Fuji abandoned their SLR line of cameras - who will drop what first?

I once held an X-Pro1, wow, it is huge, heavy and no grip to hold. Compared to my NEX 5 and NEX F3 it felt like a brick, not brick like, but a brick. It might be great in use, but at first it felt like a useless brick. Seeing that camera I find it weird that some people complain 'bout the Sony A7 being too big - the Sony A6000 is considerably smaller and lighter then the Fuji X-Pro1 and X-T1.

@Godfrey - thank you for your explanation. I understand the mark II's fixed some of the faults you describe.

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

Sony for me.

I tried to like the Fuji, rented one for a week from Lens Rentals to try it out, but we didn't get along. I found the AF unpredictable and I think the Sony implementation of focus peaking is terrific for focusing with manual focus glass. And, that was comparing the XE-2 to my Sony NEX-5n.

Now using A6000 with Sony and Zeiss glass. Plus 50mm Nokton f/1.5 for portraits.

For long-lens work, I still prefer my DSLRs.

 

[GaryLH]

I think Fuji focuses on the photographer's needs (great output) and how to get there (well designed and different bodies, wide range of glass).

Sony is driven by core engineering (sensors, sensors, sensors) and marketing platforms that hold their creations.

m4/3s should have more of my attention than it does as Olympus seems to do as good a job at Fuji does with well thought through bodies.

B2 (;->

I think that was in the past.. I suspect the new alpha series a7 or a6000 may have been influenced by the team that used to design the Minolta/Konica cameras. But I agree w/ u that to me the old new series felt like they were not designed by guys who really knew what a photographer wants.

Gary

 

[MCTuomey]

Thanks, Mike. But wouldn't it be cool if Fuji or Sony started building a line of small manual focus lenses. They could hire Cosina to do it! 🙂

I'd stand in a long line for such lenses, Jamie, for sure.

 

[GaryLH]

If Fuji can "improve AF speed" in three different updates, one might wonder why they didn't bring AF to better speeds in the first place...

They were new to the game..apsc mirrorless. What they did w/ p&s doesn't count. Your competitor will not give away what they did in algos for af speed or tell u what af motors will work in what situation or how much power u need. Their dslr experience doesn't count because they depended on Nikon for the af stuff.

I also think that until the xe2, they really did not think they need the af speed. The x100 and xp1 were more like put your foot in the water to c if they really had a product IMHO. Until they were released, no one thought of Fuji outside of the old dslr and p&s.

Gary

 

[GaryLH]

Well, Sony has the Zeiss Loxia and Voigtlander 40mm...

And Batis line as well now for ff..

Gary

 

[GaryLH]

Thanks, Mike. But wouldn't it be cool if Fuji or Sony started building a line of small manual focus lenses. They could hire Cosina to do it! 🙂

For Sony, that is called Loxia.. I believe it is made in Japan for Zeiss.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/25...s-details-on-lens-partnerships-and-production

Gary

 

[jsrockit]

And Batis line as well now for ff..

Gary

I thought we were talking about small MF lenses.

 

[Jamie Pillers]

Well, Sony has the Zeiss Loxia and Voigtlander 40mm...

I'm thinking (wishing) more on the line of Fuji XF lenses, MF-style. Imagine their XF 35/1.4 without all the auto-focus gear attached. That should be a lens about the size of the Nokton 35/1.4.. right? 🙂

 

[BillBingham2]

I think that was in the past.. I suspect the new alpha series a7 or a6000 may have been influenced by the team that used to design the Minolta/Konica cameras. But I agree w/ u that to me the old new series felt like they were not designed by guys who really knew what a photographer wants.

Gary

I really hope so, but from what I've seen over the years makes me think of a Japanese GE. Driven by the ability to check off a feature rather than daily use.

Both Konica and Minolta have some great products over the years but I'm not sure how much push back they will have.

B2 (;->

 

[jsrockit]

I'm thinking (wishing) more on the line of Fuji XF lenses, MF-style. Imagine their XF 35/1.4 without all the auto-focus gear attached. That should be a lens about the size of the Nokton 35/1.4.. right? 🙂

I would think so... but then again, it depends on its design philosophy and price point. It seems larger lenses are easy to make in regards to quality (or at least it is said on the internet as such).

 

[MCTuomey]

Fifty posts and we're in the weeds ...

 

[Spanik]

Hmmm, I'm wondering if some people have an irrational dislike of Sony 😱

"For me Sony it the company that chases whatver they think is hot right now. And drop it tomorrow for whatever reason that came up when they got out of bed."
Sony stood by Betamax and the Digital Audio Tape even when nobody thought it was hot. Fuji abandoned their SLR line of cameras - who will drop what first?

I once held an X-Pro1, wow, it is huge, heavy and no grip to hold. Compared to my NEX 5 and NEX F3 it felt like a brick, not brick like, but a brick. It might be great in use, but at first it felt like a useless brick. Seeing that camera I find it weird that some people complain 'bout the Sony A7 being too big - the Sony A6000 is considerably smaller and lighter then the Fuji X-Pro1 and X-T1.

Sadly it is not irrational dislike. I do have a Sony DAT and like all sony stuff it is great if you can live with a few idiot thing that work against it. Like being unalbe to change the recording volume while recording, you have to pause to do that. And it is not compatible in LP mode with any other DAT player. And they didn't even wanted to repair it when still in production. And the way they butchered DAT and minidisc with SCMS made them fail. With minidisc they never wanted to give spec about the codecs either so it failed and then they dropped it. Then maybe there is memorystick. About 8 versions, some compatible, some not. Expensive compared with all other solutions and dropped. Maybe we should mention the Cell processor. Another great thing they managed to push into the ground. Oh, and all those small versions of the usb connector they "invented" and make that interface a cable nightmare. Then there are the audio CD rootkits that install rootkit software on your pc so criminals can pawn it. I could continue with the tape recorder of my brother that spend more time in repair than working.

The NEX series isn't more than bars of soap. Too small to be of any use. I get cramps when I try to use my NEX3. And acid when I try to use its menus. Battery flat in no time, hours to charge it, cord on the charger to short to put it on the table.

 

[YYV_146]

They were new to the game..apsc mirrorless. What they did w/ p&s doesn't count. Your competitor will not give away what they did in algos for af speed or tell u what af motors will work in what situation or how much power u need. Their dslr experience doesn't count because they depended on Nikon for the af stuff.

I also think that until the xe2, they really did not think they need the af speed. The x100 and xp1 were more like put your foot in the water to c if they really had a product IMHO. Until they were released, no one thought of Fuji outside of the old dslr and p&s.

Gary

Yes - even after the updates the Xp1 AF speeds aren't quite good enough for work that involves motion. The Xe2 CDAF is about as good as the A7S, minus the -4ev focusing ability. The A7S is not always fast, but it locks on when you can't even see the object, which IMO is pretty cool.

But even for the current models - X-T1 and X100T - these cameras just don't feel very fast. Every option has a tiny bit of extra lag compared to, say, an A6000, and the buffer also seems to be shallower. To me that's more annoying than AF, since I only use autofocus on the occasion but often shoot in full manual.

 

[YYV_146]

RAW's that retain all the information for a start. What's the use of a great sensor if you trow away information of it? Should be a simple firmware fix or extra option.

Because they want to rate at higher frames/buffer, and enable the full 5fps without overheating the chassis. At least that's my guess.

I agree that Sony should provide the opt-out, but the compression is, frankly, not an issue to all but a few photographers with very specific needs. The sensor is still at the same dynamic range, roughly the same SNR, and (under reasonable conditions) the same color depth. They're still generations ahead of Canon designs and the difference shows under processing.

For the matter, I know two photographers Sony worked with when developing the original A7. It's not that they don't work closely with photographers, but they do tend to work with photographers who like and use their products in the first place...hence the echo chamber.

 

[lukitas]

snip

The Fujinon lenses are one the three reasons I am, and will remain, a Fujifilm owner. The second is I can simulate (not duplicate) the RF usage experience. Third, the Xtrans data stream's signal-to-noise ratio meets all my needs. I have no issues rendering the raw files. In terms of making progress on my projects, the Xtrans sensor is neither a positive or negative factor.

This.

I have a deep visceral disgust for PASM dials. The fujis have all the essential dials in the right places, and the 16-55 is a wonderful lens.

Never used the high-end sonys, and I wouldn't like to go smaller than APS-C. And I am skeptical about sensors going 'out of date'. They do what they do, and if what they do is fabulous, it will continue to be so as long as they work.

cheers

 

[jsrockit]

But even for the current models - X-T1 and X100T - these cameras just don't feel very fast. Every option has a tiny bit of extra lag compared to, say, an A6000, and the buffer also seems to be shallower.

Agreed. After using other brands, my Fujis just felt slow. It's too bad, they are great otherwise. Of course, we don't all photograph the same way, so it may work perfectly fine for many.

 

[willie_901]

I don't see any practical reason how SONY's RAW compression is an issue.

Compression can not be done without filtering the data (one must decide what data to discard). A a clever algorithm will selectively filter highlight regions (such as blue sky). The primary result is to average (filter) photon (or shot) noise.

Since photon noise is a completely described by quantum mechanics, everything required to model the filtered data is know. In principle photon noise can be added back into the data if this is desirable.

I don't know if SONY selectively filters their data. I have no idea what motivates them to unilaterally apply filtering. Thoughtful data filtering doesn't bother me as it use to.