Soo... is this a no brainer?

[randomm]

I'm looking for a 40mm lens for a Bessa R3A, thus been considering either Nokton 1.4 or Summicron-C. I can live with one less stop (f2) and having looked at a couple of reviews and tests where these two have been put against each other I'm kinda settled for the Summicron-C due to it being somewhat smaller. I am primarily looking for an ultra portable kit that I can take with me when I don't fancy taking a light meter & Robot Star combo.

Are there any other options that I should consider before I set myself looking for a reasonably priced Summi-C? I have a J8 already to play with.

 

[ferider]

Get the CLE Rokkor 40/2 instead. Same optical layout, but multi-coated, better built, easier to filter and hood.

 

[Roger Hicks]

No brainers normally appeal only to people wth no brains.

No doubt there'll be plenty of alternative suggestions, including 28, 35, 50 and possibly even 75mm lenses on a wide variety of cameras including (no doubt) the CL. Even so, your arguments sound convincing to me, despite the fact that I'd go for a 35/1.4 Summilux and an M body...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Tompas]

(...) I'm kinda settled for the Summicron-C due to it being somewhat smaller. (...)

Make sure you get one with a lens hood in decent condition. Lens hoods fitting the strange thread size are almost impossible to find. Filters are available, though.

 

[pggunn]

Get the CLE Rokkor 40/2 instead. Same optical layout, but multi-coated, better built, easier to filter and hood.

Amen. I had to sell mine last Fall and have missed it ever since. :bang:

I know there's another one in my future.

 

[back alley]

the cv 40 is not that big really.

 

[randomm]

Make sure you get one with a lens hood in decent condition. Lens hoods fitting the strange thread size are almost impossible to find. Filters are available, though.

Good point, thanks for the reminder!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

It's a no brainer for sure... Why get a sharp lens that allows you to shoot a low light scene with a twice as fast shutter speed? Or, why get a new computer designed, well priced lens that allows you to have narrower depth of field to isolate subjects when necessary? If only those facts were in some way relevant to photography or photographers... 🙂

Cheers,

Juan

 

[jsrockit]

Jeez Juan, relax. To me the OP probably wants the Voightlander's speed, but is turned off by focus shift issues. F/2 on a 40mm lens is still pretty good at isolation. While no-brainer may not be the right term here, I can see some of the reasons for going with the Leica 40mm.

 

[ferider]

I've used 40 Nokton, Summicron and Rokkor side by side, and from f2 and up, there is in practice no difference. Not surprising, since they all have very similar design. No focus shift differences either.

It's really a question of size vs speed in my mind, which only the OP can decide. Here is for size comparison:

Nokton has 43mm, Summicron Series 5.5, and Rokkor 40.5mm filter size.

Roland.

 

[jsrockit]

Yes, the size seems mitigating when you put them side to side.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I was just kidding with the "No brainer" description... I'd be as relaxed as I am even if someone was about to get a bad lens, but all of them are very good... Maybe one of them is better... 🙂

Cheers,

Juan

 

[randomm]

Thank you ferider for those photos, good to be able to compare the sizes like that.

I've been offered the Nokton S.C. through another forum for 300 euros sans the hood, I'm tempted as I could actually pick it up locally instead of going through the ebay lottery. ... 🙂

 

[randomm]

Thank you ferider for those photos, good to be able to compare the sizes like that.

I've been offered the Nokton S.C. through another forum for 300 euros sans the hood, I'm tempted as I could actually pick it up locally instead of going through the ebay lottery. ... 🙂

Uh, having spent a good part of an evening looking at photos taken with the Nokton on flickr, I'm not so sure anymore if it should be on my list... the bokeh is ... I don't know ... disturbing? Not in all circumstances, but sometimes it looks like double vision or something like that, which I'm not sure I like.

 

[kshapero]

The Nokton SC rocks. The size issue is minimal. There is no focus shift issue in my experience. In the fact this is the first time hearing this. Don't get GAS paralysis analysis. Get A lens and start shooting.

 

[rxmd]

Uh, having spent a good part of an evening looking at photos taken with the Nokton on flickr, I'm not so sure anymore if it should be on my list... the bokeh is ... I don't know ... disturbing?

I've been shooting the Nokton a lot. The only aperture where I ever got "disturbing" bokeh in some pictures was at f/1.4, and even then it was fine in most cases. At f/2 it was fine throughout.

Now take a look at the Summicron's bokeh at f/1.4. Surprise! It only goes to f/2.

I didn't see any consistent "focus shift" issues either. I did get mis-focused shots because focusing at f/1.4 is not as easy as it seems in low light. In many cases focus shift seems to be the new Internet term for this situation.

I'd get the Nokton. It's an outstanding, consistent, sharp, small, fast and cheap lens. What more do you want?

 

[randomm]

I've been shooting the Nokton a lot. The only aperture where I ever got "disturbing" bokeh in some pictures was at f/1.4, and even then it was fine in most cases. At f/2 it was fine throughout.

Now take a look at the Summicron's bokeh at f/1.4. Surprise! It only goes to f/2.

I didn't see any consistent "focus shift" issues either. I did get mis-focused shots because focusing at f/1.4 is not as easy as it seems in low light. In many cases focus shift seems to be the new Internet term for this situation.

I'd get the Nokton. It's an outstanding, consistent, sharp, small, fast and cheap lens. What more do you want?

Do you have link to an example image taken at f2 on the Nokton? All I'm seeing in flickr is the Summi delivering smooth old class bokeh and Nokton not ... the background becomes intrusive, my eyes wonder looking at bokeh artifacts instead of what's in focus.

I would obviously love the extra stop, but would first like to see if the bokeh changes significantly between f1.4 and f2 as at least the f1.4 stuff I don't like. My current low light gear includes Canon FD 50mm f1.4 which delivers very nice low light images, what I do not want is spend money on something that will just keep me shooting a noisy SLR due to results in low light.

 

[rxmd]

Do you have link to an example image taken at f2 on the Nokton?

From my gallery here:



Seems OK to me.

The scan is bad, $1 a roll from a cheap Chinese minilab with overrun chemistry in Tashkent and little postprocessing. I could probably make a better scan but not from here.

All I'm seeing in flickr is the Summi delivering smooth old class bokeh and Nokton not ... the background becomes intrusive, my eyes wonder looking at bokeh artifacts instead of what's in focus.

That may at least partly be due to selection bias (people post more f/1.4 than f/2 shots) and partly due to you expecting it yourself. Looking through pictures at the moment you're consistently looking only at bokeh and backgrounds. In other words, since by now you've trained your brain to look at bokeh and to expect "Nokton weirdness" when you see the label Nokton, of course you will find it everywhere. This the perspective of someone choosing gear, but not the behaviour of somebody looking at pictures normally.

In practice it won't make a difference. The option of going f/1.4 in low light, however, will.

 

[randomm]

From my gallery here:



Seems OK to me.

I agree. Nice.

That may at least partly be due to selection bias (people post more f/1.4 than f/2 shots) and partly due to you expecting it yourself. Looking through pictures at the moment you're consistently looking only at bokeh and backgrounds. In other words, since by now you've trained your brain to look at bokeh and to expect "Nokton weirdness" when you see the label Nokton, of course you will find it everywhere. This the perspective of someone choosing gear, but not the behaviour of somebody looking at pictures normally.

In practice it won't make a difference. The option of going f/1.4 in low light, however, will.

I am aware that obviously this sort of selection bias does tend to happen, so I tried to trick myself by switching between two windows at random, one having the Nokton pool in the new lightbox mode and other having the the summi-c pool. I would like to claim that I could tell 8/10 times which picture I was looking at, but only from bokeh - not from landscapes and other photos taken at high apertures.

I understand all the pros from going with the Nokton:

- its already been offered to me at a reasonable price
- it goes down to f1.4 which is very nice
- its computer designed, and a modern lens
- as a newer lens I'm less likely to experience problems with dust, fungus etc

All I'm worried about is the bokeh, and going by your example I probably shouldn't be. So perhaps I'll get the Nokton next week and see how we get along 🙂

Thanks again.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

randomm,

If you want the f2 ones, check the classifieds: they just popped up...

Cheers,

Juan