Soon to be Bessa Newbie Looking for Some Advice

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Taynt3d

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Hey All,

Nice forum you have here! Maybe you all can help me out a bit?

First a little background on me. I'm 41 and grew up on film, switched fully to digital many years back (currently using a 5D2 with L-glass), and shoot mostly for fun but at times semi-professionally. About a year ago, and for some reason I can't even remember now, got interested in the fixed-lens rangefinders from the 70's. I've since bought two different Canonet GIIIs and a Yashica Electro 35 CC, started shooting B&W film again, and even took a six-week B&W development class to get my basic darkroom skills back up to snuff (been a long time!). This all also inspired me to purchase an EOS 3 so I could shoot film using all my god-only-knows-how-much-I-spent-on-it Canon L-glass, LOL.

So, I've decided to take my rangefinder action up a notch finally. Although I absolutely love the discreet form factor of 35mm rangefinders, honestly I'm just sick and tired of old vintage crap flaking out on me, crappy or non-working meters, misaligned and dark finders, batteries that are a PITA, etc. You know the drill. So, I've finally narrowed things down to purchasing a Bessa. I did seriously consider a Leica CL or a Minolta CLE for a while, loving again the small form factor, quiet shutter, etc. But I think I need something more modern and less likely to cause me trouble (although feel free to talk me out of this). What I really want is something not too big, something that is going to work when I need it to, and something that can deliver quality results. I'm also not all that interested in spending small fortune on yet another system, my primary fortune is tied up in canon SLR gear, so I'm ruling out going with any sort of Leica M body (for now at least, heh).

As far as lenses go, generally speaking, I'm thinking about getting a single lens that's versatile in many situations (when I need lots of focal length options, I'll probably just grab the 5D2). I'm particularly interested in available light indoor/street/people/candid type of stuff shot in B&W. Right now, I'm pretty much set on an R3A with the 40mm f1.4 SC Nokton. Generally speaking, I don't like 50mm as my all-around/walk-around lens. I tend to prefer 35mm as my standard focal length, but the 1:1 finder and longer effective baselength of the R3A are very attractive to me. I thought about just slapping the 35mm f1.4 Nokton on the R3A, and I know people are shooting that way, but given I'm relatively new (or remembering) to rangefinders, I'm thinking I might be better off using a focal length that will have framelines (instead of adjusting in my head).

Anyway, here's a few questions for those inclined to help me sort this out:

1. Since small and inconspicuous is important to me, do you think I'll be satified with the Bessa's footprint (my comparison is an SLR form factor, so I'm thinking this is a yes, but I've also gotten a bit spoiled with the small Yashica and GIII on this front)?

2. Would it be stupid to try to use the 35mm lens on the R3A? Or would I be better off picking between the R2A with the 35mm or an R3A with a 40mm? I'm really attracted to the longer effective baselength of the R3A because I anticipate shooting at f1.4 quite a bit. Or do you think the R2A would be just fine. I'm also attracted to the thought of using the 1:1 viewfinder because believe it or not, I actually shoot with both eyes open on my SLRs sometimes when I'm laying in wait for the decisive moment (this is really weird on the 5D2, lol, but I manage, heh).

3. The lugs on the Bessa's look like they are in the worst place imaginable, and I'm worried they are going to piss me off as far as how the camera hangs. Is that true? It also seems like the best solution is getting the side grip (I don't want the added bulk of the trigger winder). Does the side grip add much bulk? Also, does the camera ride better with the side grip lug? And is it possible/feasible to hang the camera vertically by using the side grip lug with the Bessa's lug right next to it? Does anyone hang their camera that way?

I welcome all feedback and advice, so please let me know what you think given my descriptions above. I'm dying to figure this out so I can get a purchase together with CameraQuest soon!

Thanks in advance for your help...
 
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Welcome to the cult, er club.

The Bessa R3A is a very nice camera and you can't go wrong with it, although in honesty, having used it for a year, I've been thinking of upgrading it (see the thread "Bessa R3A or Hexar RF"). This could just be passing GAS, so I wouldn't let it influence you too much.

If you want to shoot a 35mm lens, I would seriously consider getting a camera with the correct framelines (R2A/M for example). Viewfinders work fine for wider lens that you can scale focus, but can be a bit of a hassle for "normal" lens that require more precision when focusing. Moving your eye from the rangefinder to the external viewfinder isn't that difficult, but it's an extra step that can easily be avoided by using a camera with built-in framelines, especially for such a common FL as 35mm.

If you are going to shoot with a R3A, I'd recommend getting a 40mm instead of a 35mm. Personally, I love 40mm for street shooting and candids, and I don't know why I've avoided it for so long with this camera (I think I was initially scared off by the difficulty with seeing the frame-lines when wearing glasses). My recommendation would be to get the Nokton 40mm 1.4 so you can have a fast, modern lens as your mainstay (there are innumerable threads comparing the Nokton with the Summicron-C and Rokkor 40mm. Frankly, it seems to be a wash to me, and the extra speed has a greater effect on my photography than minor variances in corner sharpness and bokeh). If you want to get into high-performance and/or vintage glass, there are a wealth of options in the 50mm range. While the CV lens are great value for their price (and excellent lens all around), there are so many great, even legendary 50mm lens in LTM and M mount that it seems a shame not to take advantage of them.

Re: the positioning of the lugs - this is easily rectified by using an external grip, or a wrist strap instead of a neck strap (I prefer a wrist strap because if my camera is out of my bag, it's in my hand, ready to shoot).

Happy shooting.
 
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I'm 40 years old here, and also an owner of a 5DmkII. The parallels are spooky... 🙂

Just like you, I've migrated back into film recently for a lot of the same reasons. Primarily for me, I really like the artistic aesthetic of film ... there's something about it that digital doesn't have. Not everyone might see things the same way, but it's a refreshing change to put down my 5DmkII 100% automated megapixel monster and grab some film and head out with my rangefinder.

Which leads me to my next statment. I also have a collection of 1970's Japanese rangefinders, gleaned from thrift shops and other odd places. I share your pain about the reliability. A few of my 1970's rangefinders work fine, but many of them have "issues".

Like you, I was tired of putting up with these problems so a while back I bought a Bess R3A to get into "modern" rangefinders. So here's my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

My main thesis is this: Others may strongly disagree, but I think for the money, the Bessa R2A / R3A is a better choice than getting an old 1970's Leica CLE. For about the same price, you are getting a NEW camera, with better features and a warranty.
Regarding your itemized list:

#1. I find my R3A is a joy to use. It's MUCH smaller than any current Japanese dSLR. About the same size as most 1970's Japanese rangefinders, I'd say. It is definitely much more inconspicuous. I went out this past weekend and shot a couple rolls of B&W at a street festival. Lots of candids, people sitting around, people dancing, vendors, etc. Nobody paid me any attention -- except one photographer / gear head who stared at my R3A with a puzzled look. I guess he didn't know what it was!

I find the R3A is easy to carry and really fun to use. If you set your lens for hyperfocus, you can just shoot from the hip to get street candids and no one would ever be the wiser.

2. I have the CV 35/1.4 wide angle lens, and use it with my R3A without issues. You just have to remember that when you're framing your picture, you're going to get more of the image in your final shot. Basically, you look through the finder, and compose with the idea that your lens is going to capture the ENTIRE viewfinder image BEYOND the 40mm framelines. It's really not a big deal. The CV 35 is a great lens and has a nice field of view, if you like shooting mildly wide.

The thing that made me love the R3A is the viewfinder -- the 1:1 viewfinder is really bright and one the the best I've ever seen on a rangefinder. It's strange that more cameras don't have this kind of feature.

3. I've never thought about the lugs. I use a generic boring black shoulder strap and can carry the camera around all afternoon without an issue. It hangs off your shoulder more or less horizontally, but is still pretty well balanced. Maybe other people would find the lug position a problem. Doesn't matter to me.

Re: side grip -- I've always thought the thing looks butt ugly and adds more weight without adding any significant improvement in functionality. But that's just me.

Good luck with your decision! If you're looking for more info, I'm happy to help.

p.s. the Nokton 40 F1.4 is a great lens for the price. Can't go wrong there either, and you'll get the 100% accurate framelines on the R3A.
 
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Hi,

Welcome!

1. You'll be absolutely satisfied with the size and weight. A pleasure all day long... Far from SLR's (which I love and use too...)
2. More than precise framing, the reason for using the 40 with its framelines, is the pleasure of seeing the world surrounding your composition. I use the 40 1.4 (MC) and it's an amazing lens. Being fast, sharp even wide open, with no distortion, small and in the middle of 35 and 50, it's impossible to think of of a better all around lens.
3. The way the camera hangs, is no problem at all, and it's well designed: when it's sitting on its base and you raise it from the strap, your lens won't knock the table as other cameras do, and after years, both lens and camera stay healthier... I don't use it, but I've heard the side grip is very nice for grip and hanging...

Cheers,

Juan
 
I may have moved a bit quickly, but after 2 weeks with R3A it is now sold and I'm waiting for a CLE kit through post.

My two reasons for this:

+ lug positions... I guess they are there to accommodate a Nokton 1.1 or some other heavy lens?
+ thick-rimmed glasses, I could not even see the 50mm frame lines clearly, and I found that if I have to focus with my glasses on, and then remove them for framing, I can just as quickly shoot with my Zorki 1 🙂

If I'm going to get another Bessa at some point it is going to have to be an R2 or R4, with the finger grip.
 
Hi there, R3A was my first rangefinder and 50 1.5 nokton came with it. I also loved the 1:1 magnification and when you pair it with a 50mm lens, you can open both eyes and see your subject walking into the scene...

I got hooked so much that I later bought a M6 + 35mm and a R4M... can't justify the expense therefore sold R3A with much remorse

M6 has a 0.72 VF I think and using the 50mm lens on it is good, although not as joyful as R3A...

Now both of my rangefinders are mechancial and I really miss the Aperture priority.

I've never used 40 1.4 but I imagine that it will be a great all rounder which may allow you to skip both 35 and 50 🙂
 
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This is an unusual thread in that it consists almost entirely of rational thought and answers given on the basis of experience!

For me, the importance of 1:1 is exaggerated: you (or at least I) can quite quickly get used to different magifications. It's nice, but I'd rather have a 35mm frame. If you're happy with 40, that's even better. Personally I'd not use a 35 lens with a 40 frame, but that's mostly just me (and I see no point when I can get a 35 frame).

I've tried all the Bessa-R series except 4, and the 2 is my favourite. Like the OP I've had old RFs (still have a few, though one should be going out tomorrow) and I COMPLETELY agree about a newer, more versatile camera.

Yes, I think you'll find it small enough -- it actually feels smaller than many FLRFs - and yes, the lugs are irritating at first but they really don't worry me that much. Like any camera, you get used to its shortcomings (M4P flare-out, for example) in return for its advantages. So would I recommend one? Yes!

You might find a general piece on current and recent RF cameras useful, again based on experience -- there's even a picture of our old Canon 50/1.2 on an R3: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps rf.html

Cheers,

R.
 
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The Bessa R with sidegrip is my only Bessa. I find the camera way better to hold with the grip, especially when holding it with just the right hand, Plus it eliminates the weird off-balance hang. The R is less money and has 35mm framelines. I only have three lenses: cv 28/1.9, cv 35/2.5, and a Canon 50/1.8.

While the R has no framelines for the 28, I find that using the entire frame of the viewfinder works just fine. The camera, as others have pointed out, is smaller than most older SLR's (the newer ones are larger yet) and thus less intrusive because it's less noticeable. It's also fast. I prefer the 28 for street shooting, but the 35 is also fine for the same purpose. Don't know if the R has the 1:1 viewfinder, but it's wonderful regardless.

My next Bessa will be the R4A because I mostly use wide-angle lenses. If I want to do serious portraits I'll use my Rollei or my Spotmatic with a 105/2.8.
 
My two cents, trying not to repeat the excellent advice offered above, yet based on my experience w/ an R3A, which I use mainly w/ a 40 (in my case, a Rokkor 40/2 CLE version):

The R3A is compact yet has a nice solid feel to it (compared to the Bessa R), and the vf is excellent. I do agree w/ Roger, though, that 1:1 is over-rated, particularly if you focus w/ your left eye (I do) so shooting w/ both eyes open is not workable. I have been very impressed w/ the metering and AE on the R3A. The camera has a nice feel to it in use, IMO.

Two downsides to the R3A which I pass along; others may have had different experiences. First, the rf seems to be prone to be knocked out of alignment more easily than on other rf cameras (including, interestingly, other Bessas). I'm not sure why this should be, but I've had this problem and others have reported it too. Second, if you wear glasses (I do), the 40 framelines can be hard to see; they're close to the outer edge of the vf. If I were doing it over, I'd get an R2A and learn to compensate for a 40 lens using the 35 framelines. That way, you'd have more "space" around the framelines, which as Juan points out is one of the pleasures of shooting w/ an rf camera. I think that the frameline/magnification combination on the R3A is best suited for 50 and 75 lenses. I have loved using my R3A w/ old Leica glass, like the Summitar and the Elmar 50/3.5.

With those caveats noted, I think you should get the R3A and the Nokton 40/1.4 SC. You may love it, as do a lot of other RFF members. The Nokton 40 is a lovely lens, and it may be perfect for the low light work you want to do. I don't have that lens, but I've seen a lot of photos taken w/ it, and it is truly impressive. If the camera and lens don't work out for you in practice, you can sell them pretty easily.
 
My first RF was the R3A with the 40/1.4 and I thought it would be the best compromise. As a single lens combination it probably still is but a couple of things to consider.

1. There's really no useable spare space around the 40 framelines so if you fit a 35 you're going to be guessing where the edges are - no hope of "adjusting in my head" as you put it.

2. I've found the 40 is still not wide enough for my current interests of street and travel and I've now also got an R4A with a 35/1.4 - and I use the 25/4 quite a bit as well. I never use 90 and haven't got one but I occasionally use the 75, but with the R4's that requires an external viewfinder.

Now I've also got an M6 and for that I've got the 28/2. I still have the R3A but I suspect it's the one that's going to be sold before too long. But the 1:1 viewfinder is something else! Similar problem with the M6 actually. The 28 framelines don't quite have enough around them for using the 25 without an external viewfinder, but I can at a pinch.

If I was starting over again (forgetting the Leica for the moment) I'd probably choose the R2A with the 35/1.4 as my starting point, and accept the VF magnification which is virtually the same as the Leica 0.72.
 
i wouldn't hang the camera by the grip lug + camera lug on the same side. too much twisting.

to hang the camera vertically, you want to get the trigger winder.

ditto what other people said about getting the camera that has framelines for the lens you get.
 
Taynt3d said:
Although I absolutely love the discreet form factor of 35mm rangefinders, honestly I'm just sick and tired of old vintage crap flaking out on me, crappy or non-working meters, misaligned and dark finders, batteries that are a PITA, etc. You know the drill. So, I've finally narrowed things down to purchasing a Bessa. I did seriously consider a Leica CL or a Minolta CLE for a while, loving again the small form factor, quiet shutter, etc. But I think I need something more modern and less likely to cause me trouble (although feel free to talk me out of this).
Click to expand...
Yes, I hear you. I´d buy a used Leica M6 from a reputable dealer though. I owned Bessas and Leicas in the past. The Bessas are nice and of course they do take pictures, but side by side they are certainly a level below in "look and feel". It´s not just a red dot thats missing. Note also that you can buy and sell a used M without much loss (if any loss at all). A new Bessa will lose value immediately.
 
But why would you want to buy a new Bessa and then think about selling it? I've never had one wear out.
 
tedwhite said:
But why would you want to buy a new Bessa and then think about selling it? I've never had one wear out.
Click to expand...

Me either. I recently got the M6 to fondle. Nice to use as well, but it makes you realise what a great job Cosina did in designing the Bessa. My two have more functionality than the M6 - they just don't have the same 'feel' in the hand. (And I'm using CV glass on the M6 body).
 
I have had quite a few 70's rangefinders: Yashica Electro 35, Canon Q17 GIII, Olympus 35RC, Ricoh 500G and an Olympus XA. Without a doubt, my Bessa R and the 35mm F2.5 Voigtlander lens knocks spots off them. Yes, I do have some rangefinder alignment problems, but the camera is not so much bigger than the compact models and yields much better results...
Best of luck!
RoyM
 
What RoyM said. I, too, have had several RF cameras: Yashica Electro GSN, Kiev 4A (2), Olympus XA (2), and the Bessa R with the Color Skopar 35/2.5. Never had a rangefinder alignment problem and there was a time not so long ago when it was carried daily on a motorcycle in a tank bag.

I also had an M6 for a few months. In comparing the two, I thought the rangefinder on the R was equal to - if not slightly brighter and clearer - than the M6's. I know I've just uttered heresy, but that's how it seemed to me in comparison. I love the focusing tab on the Color Skopar - talk about fast focusing.
 
Thanks everyone, all your comments really helped a lot. I agonized most over which focal length was going to be my mainstay. In the end I decided on an R3A with a grip and soft release along with the 40mm Nokton SC. I also ordered 10 rolls of Tri-X and 43mm UV and ND .9 filters. CAN'T WAIT!!!
 
Hey all, just a little update. I freakin' love this thing, thanks for the help. Here's a few samples I made at a wedding last weekend. As the pros did their digital thing, I popped off a few rolls of Tri-X (+1 stop push) with my R3A and 40mm Nokton, heh... Timeless look... So, thanks again...

swerbo_photoblog_20101003_35240017.jpg


swerbo_photoblog_20101003_35240005.jpg
 
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