Sorry, but knowledgeable digital RF rumour...

[Fred Burton]

Well, Nikon has cuts its annual profit forecast by 40 percent, even though camera sales of slr cameras remain strong. I would guess it would be an unlikely time for them to do something "silly" though. 🙂

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssLeisureProducts/idUST23491120081030

 

[BillBingham2]

Yup, but more.

Yup, but more.

The mirror box will be much the same size anyway. All you're suggesting here is replacing the focusing screen of an SLR with a sensor.

Yup, just wondering how you could get a camera to be as small as say a Leica M3 or Nikon S3 and still have lenses that are retrofocus (I think that's the term) without being too big. One of the problems with some lens/camera combinations are that the lens sticks back into the body too far. I'm wondering if you could change the lens designs so that it's further from the sensor and therefor avoid the angle of light hitting sensor problem.

I'm just wondering if we are trying to fix the problem the wrong way. If we look to fix the angle problem other than at the sensor would it be easier?

That said I'm one of the loud ones saying keep the old glass, but perhaps I'm wrong. ZI and CV have proven to me that great glass is not only over 30 years old, there is some great new stuff at reasonable prices (why I did not mention the Solms crew).

Just wondering.

B2 (;->

 

[BillBingham2]

It also took Epson several years to sell these 10,000 cameras.

Jim B.

If they had the clue here in the states to gear up for post sales support and really offer them for a few $$$$ less they would have sold out much earlier.

B2 (;->

 

[BillBingham2]

Wellllll

Wellllll

Well, Nikon has cuts its annual profit forecast by 40 percent, even though camera sales of slr cameras remain strong......

Profit is just one way of measuring a company and what is going on. If you are launching a new line of cameras (not just a D450, but something NEW) it eats into your profit. They might have been banking on growth rate to continue and so they could fund the launch and still make a hefty bit of coin. If something big is going to happen in February it would be silly (IMHO) to put the breaks on now. It's not a consumer item as they would be pressing for it to be announce now for Christmas dollars. I think it is more than just a down turn in demand.

On the other hand it might be funding layoffs, but I like to try and think positive.

B2 (;->

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yup, just wondering how you could get a camera to be as small as say a Leica M3 or Nikon S3 and still have lenses that are retrofocus (I think that's the term) without being too big. One of the problems with some lens/camera combinations are that the lens sticks back into the body too far. I'm wondering if you could change the lens designs so that it's further from the sensor and therefor avoid the angle of light hitting sensor problem.

I'm just wondering if we are trying to fix the problem the wrong way. If we look to fix the angle problem other than at the sensor would it be easier?

That said I'm one of the loud ones saying keep the old glass, but perhaps I'm wrong. ZI and CV have proven to me that great glass is not only over 30 years old, there is some great new stuff at reasonable prices (why I did not mention the Solms crew).

Just wondering.

B2 (;->

Dear Bill,

Retrofocus is merely a way of getting a long back focus (to leave room for a reflex mirror). The trick is given away by the other term, 'reverse telephoto'. A telephoto lens has a negative glass or group behind the image-forming group to shorten the back focus and make the lens less unwieldy; a reverse-telephoto or Retrofocus design has a negative glass or group in front to increase the back focus. These negative groups inevitably reduce image quality or reduce the designer's freedom to make fast lenses; a telephoto or reverse-telephoto design must invariably be more expensive than a non-tele/reverse-tele design, or slower, or more expensive, or any combination of the three.

You are perhaps thinking of telecentric designs, but the drawback here is that they are much harder to correct for chromatic aberration, which is why telecentricity is not more common.

As for 'great glass over 30 years old', I'd have thought that Leica, never mind anyone else, might have illustrated that actually, there has been continuous progress in lens design. The oldest Leica lens I use regularly (90/2.2) dates from 1938 and was designed in about 1934; my two newest (75/2 and 50/2.5) both date from the 21st century.

Cheers,

R.

 

[NIKON KIU]

Editors love end-of-year predictions, and journalists sometimes catch the disease from them. I've been asked to write many over the years. Mostly they are either statements of the obvious, or wild fantasies. Either way, their entertainment value tends to be higher than their predictive value, and to lie in the author's skill as a writer rather than as a soothsayer.

Cheers,

Roger

I remember reading many a stories like that in Shutterbug, it used to be a yearly thing. Of course I enjoyed reading them, predictions like $5 one-time-use-digital cameras in 10 years is one I remember from the late 1990s...

Roger, I like to ask you a question and hope you will give us your professional opinion.
Nikon stopped all Film R&D in early 2006, decided to put all their eggs in the digital basket. The F6 is said to be the last film camera they will ever produce. Seems to me Leica went that route as well, the introduction of the S2 seems the next step in the evolution of R series cameras and lenses.

Do you think Nikon will ever produce other than Digi-SLRs or Coolpix stuff?


Regards,

Kiu

 

[Roger Hicks]

I remember reading many a stories like that in Shutterbug, it used to be a yearly thing. Of course I enjoyed reading them, predictions like $5 one-time-use-digital cameras in 10 years is one I remember from the late 1990s...

Roger, I like to ask you a question and hope you will give us your professional opinion.
Nikon stopped all Film R&D in early 2006, decided to put all their eggs in the digital basket. The F6 is said to be the last film camera they will ever produce. Seems to me Leica went that route as well, the introduction of the S2 seems the next step in the evolution of R series cameras and lenses.

Do you think Nikon will ever produce other than Digi-SLRs or Coolpix stuff?


Regards,

Kiu

Dear Kiu,

Ummm.........

I'm not close enough to Nikon to know, and I already have a modest amount of egg on my face from the S2, but put it this way:

No, I don't think they'll go outside DSLRs and Coolpices (note new plural based on 'index'), except perhaps for the occasional 'Commemorative' film camera. For example, I'd not be too astonished at a reprise of the original 24x32 RF (Nikon I/Nikorette). This is because such cameras provide excellent training for apprentices, and help designers 'think out of the box' by reminding them how things used to be done.

A 24x36mm sensor for a digital RF is a non-trivial undertaking, and fitting everything into a sensible-sized body is demanding too, which is why the M8 looks a bit overfed. On top of this, an S-mount body -- let's call it an S4D -- would appeal almost exclusively to collectors because compared with Leica there are very few lenses out there and the narrow throat of the S-mount is extremely restrictive. It would also be horrifyingly expensive.

An M-mount body (SM, maybe) would have a bigger market but I can't see it being significantly cheaper than a Leica M8.2 or (in due course) M9. Cheaper, possibly; significantly cheaper, no.

It's probably possible to build a 24x36 RF right now with dedicated telecentric lenses, but they'd be very expensive and you'd really need a new mount. Otherwise people would try to use legacy lenses, and complain.

As for Leica and digital, I suspect that the MP and M7 meet the demands of those who want film cameras, so there's not much need for R+D there. What killed the last R was the withdrawal of the digital sensor -- they were selling modestly, and making a profit -- and so Leica invested a lot in becoming more independent of minor suppliers. The S2 ('Afrika') was a brilliantly kept secret and I'd expect an R10 as soon as they have enough manpower to design/make it, again with a Kodak sensor.

But as I say, such predictions are always more interesting as entertainment than as futurology.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[snegron]

I don't see why anyone thinks it is impossible (or improbable) that Nikon can simply make a 2009 limited production run of the old Nikon F and stamp it on the front with "50th Anniversary Edition". How difficult can this be? They have the blueprints, the copyright, the personnell, the equipment, and the money. Yes, there are plenty of F's still on the market, but there were also plenty of FM2's when they produced the "Year of the Dog" and "Year of the Dragon" special editgions. There was also an ample supply of both silver-colored and black-colored FA's when the special edition gold FA was released, as was the case with the gold FM.

Bottom line is, contrary to the popular beliefs of the majority of people on this forum, there are actually people on this planet who collect cameras in addition to just using them. Yes, I know this is not a very popular concept, and heaven shield me from the wrath of the Nikon erudites, but I would love to have a 2009 F if Nikon decided to make one. A simple F with the "50th Anniversary" stamp on the front, knowing that I purchased it brand new, with all new materials. It would make me happy. It won't make me a better photographer, but it would make me a happier one. 🙂

 

[jonmanjiro]

I don't see why anyone thinks it is impossible (or improbable) that Nikon can simply make a 2009 limited production run of the old Nikon F and stamp it on the front with "50th Anniversary Edition". How difficult can this be? They have the blueprints, the copyright, the personnell, the equipment, and the money. Yes, there are plenty of F's still on the market, but <snip>

I agree, with Nikon its certainly possible, and even probable. My wish would be for an F body with eye level finder, built in meter, and the shutter from the FM3a. That would totally ROCK

I'd even use it to take photos 😉
😀

 

[Nh3]

I find it hard to get excited abut anything digital.

Call me when Nikon got back to making film cameras.

 

[rbsinto]

I agree, with Nikon its certainly possible, and even probable. My wish would be for an F body with eye level finder, built in meter, and the shutter from the FM3a. That would totally ROCK

I'd even use it to take photos 😉
😀

Jon,
I think the camera you are referring to exists, and is called an FM2.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

So what exactly does this knowledgeable digital RF rumour know? Is it knowledgeable in photography? Rangefinders? Rumours? Light fall-off correction?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Jon,
I think the camera you are referring to exists, and is called an FM2.

I was thinking more along the lines of an F body with aperture priority mode, Robert. That's why I'd want the FM3a shutter. No harm in dreaming 😉

 

[Roger Hicks]

I don't see why anyone thinks it is impossible (or improbable) that Nikon can simply make a 2009 limited production run of the old Nikon F and stamp it on the front with "50th Anniversary Edition". 🙂

Dead easy. The only improbable bit is stuffing a digital sensor in to it, which I thought was what the 'knowledgeable rumour'-monger was suggesting. There isn't really enough room, unless they add a fake F36 motor and battery grip as well. Even then it might be tight.

Cheers,

R.

 

[rbsinto]

I am confused by what I read here.
Certain individuals are wishing/hoping for a 2009 commemorative 50th Anniversary Nikon F, but they want it with metered finders, digital sensors, high-speed Titanium foil shutters and so on, and so on and so on. In other words, they seem to want the new-old camera to be exactly the same as the original old camera.......only different.
Which means it wouldn't even be an F at all.
If the idea is to have something truly collectible, wouldn't it make more sense to get a very nice example of the original F instead? It would actually have been around for all or most of the last fifty years, and to me, that alone would mean vastly more than something built this year or next, but that comes complete with a commemorative plaque or engraving on it.

 

[CameraQuest]

Do you guys remember the Nikon rangefinder digital medium format rumor that hardly anyone believed at first? Well that rumor is is picking up steam on the net and seems more and more believable.

Personally I think the commemorative Nikon F and SP sets probably did make it at least to the prototype stage. What their specs are is another question. The bigger question now is whether or Nikon would release its most expensive cameras ever in the face of the world wide financial crises. On the other hand, there is only one Nikon 60th Anniversary of selling their first cameras.

Time will tell.

Stephen

 

[Al Kaplan]

How did we ever get over to dicussing Nikon SLR cameras?

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

THen there were those rumors prior to Photokina this year, that Nikon planned a digital RF camera which would take F, S, and M lenses -- with appropriate adapters. Tom A said in some forum here that likely prototypes had been seen on the streets in Tokyo.

FWIW

 

[snegron]

I am confused by what I read here.
Certain individuals are wishing/hoping for a 2009 commemorative 50th Anniversary Nikon F, but they want it with metered finders, digital sensors, high-speed Titanium foil shutters and so on, and so on and so on. In other words, they seem to want the new-old camera to be exactly the same as the original old camera.......only different.
Which means it wouldn't even be an F at all.
If the idea is to have something truly collectible, wouldn't it make more sense to get a very nice example of the original F instead? It would actually have been around for all or most of the last fifty years, and to me, that alone would mean vastly more than something built this year or next, but that comes complete with a commemorative plaque or engraving on it.

As you pointed out in a previous response, any alteration to the F woud simply make it another camera (like an FM2). Only an F is an F, anything else is just another camera.

My wish is for an original F, no meter, no automation, no bells, no whistles, no digital sensor; just a plain old F. I would be happy with a brand new F (even with the 50th Aniversary stamp), made as simple as it was back in 1959. The only difference would be that Nikon would be giving this generation the opportunity to own a brand new F.

Yes, I am sure that an outstanding, well-preserved F of 1959 vintage can still be purchased at a premium price, but it is simply not the same. I am certain that the old vintage F can perform just as well today as it did 50 years ago, but it would be a great experience ordering a brand new F, recieve it in its original box, remove it from its factory wrappings, load it with film for the first time, and listen to the film advance mechanism wind from one frame to the next as you create magical images with it.

Of course, even my dream of purchasing a 50th Aniversary F would be near impossible because I am sure that Nikon will only make a few for the local Japanese market. A few of these new F's would then be available on ebay in a few years at ridiculously high prices and purchasing one (even a mint, unopened one) would not be the same. I know that it is simply a matter of perception, but one can dream after all. 🙂

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I think that if we believed every Internet rumour, Elvis would be in a good position to take money for pre-orders of his new album.

Not until it comes from the horse's mouth (not somebody who heard something from somebody who ate at somebody's friend's dinner where somebody told somebody else that something "big" is happening) will I believe a new camera-related rumour.