fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
This question might have been ask many times before. Ran a search of the archives and came out empty.
Was wondering if there are any advantages of getting an SP over an S2 if i only shoot 50mm?
I am a nikon RF noob......
Was wondering if there are any advantages of getting an SP over an S2 if i only shoot 50mm?
I am a nikon RF noob......
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I'll be interested to see what is written by the experts. I've always thought that if I actually got myself a Nikon RF it would be either an S2 or S3 (probably a chrome 2000) because I would be predominately interested in shooting with a 50 as well. ISTR that the articles at http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm support the idea that for a 50 shooter the S2 is the best bet.
There is just too much of a premium on an SP for me to be able to afford one shy of a miracle at a thrift or estate sale.
William
There is just too much of a premium on an SP for me to be able to afford one shy of a miracle at a thrift or estate sale.
William
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
No lightmeter in the SP!! I do use the S2 for the 50 as it has a nice 1:1 magnification and is totally uncluttered by any other frames. You can use the 35 in a pinch by using the "full view" too.
The better deal would be the S3 as their prices have dropped quite a bit in the last while. The 50 frame is good and you have the advantage of single speed dial (non-rotating too).
I have an equal amount of S2's, S3's and SP's (4 of each and dont ask why) and I find that I tend to use the S3's for 50 and 35 mm lenses. The SP's are usually used with the 28 (and 25 with some guesswork as to framing).
The S2 is a good body - prices are reasonable and they usually come with the 50 on it, either the f1.4 or f2. They have a bit more of a "mechanical" feel to them than the S3/SP. In fact the two smoothest cameras that I have (and that includes a large amount of the Leica M's) are my Millennium S3 in Black and a 1964 Olympic S3. They are both the proverbial hot knife through butter smooth.
Another advantage with the S3 (and the SP) is that the innards (shutter etc) are common to the Nikon F's - which makes parts more accessible.
In any Rf camera, finder condition is paramount. Bright patch, clean finder etc is important - the rest are just mechanical parts and can be sourced and fixed. Finders are a different story!
The better deal would be the S3 as their prices have dropped quite a bit in the last while. The 50 frame is good and you have the advantage of single speed dial (non-rotating too).
I have an equal amount of S2's, S3's and SP's (4 of each and dont ask why) and I find that I tend to use the S3's for 50 and 35 mm lenses. The SP's are usually used with the 28 (and 25 with some guesswork as to framing).
The S2 is a good body - prices are reasonable and they usually come with the 50 on it, either the f1.4 or f2. They have a bit more of a "mechanical" feel to them than the S3/SP. In fact the two smoothest cameras that I have (and that includes a large amount of the Leica M's) are my Millennium S3 in Black and a 1964 Olympic S3. They are both the proverbial hot knife through butter smooth.
Another advantage with the S3 (and the SP) is that the innards (shutter etc) are common to the Nikon F's - which makes parts more accessible.
In any Rf camera, finder condition is paramount. Bright patch, clean finder etc is important - the rest are just mechanical parts and can be sourced and fixed. Finders are a different story!
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I knew the experts would have good info to share. All we need now is Brian to weigh in... 
(I still hope to someday be able to afford a chrome S3/2000...)
William
(I still hope to someday be able to afford a chrome S3/2000...)
William
imhere
Peter
I have both S3 and SP but I prefer my S3 when using 35mm or 50mm and as Tom stated above I find my S3 noticeably smoother to operate as compared to the SP and I maybe lucky as both the focus patches are more than reasonable for focussing in dim light or it could be that I've just adapted myself to these cameras.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
what is a rotating speed dial?
Mister E
Well-known
Don't all the more recent Nikon RF's a 1:1 finder? The S2, S3, SP and S4 all do right? Then why do I see that listed as an advantage of the S2 all the time?
The SP finder is not cluttered, AT ALL. You can have JUST the 50 lines. I only use the 50 and 85 lines. Even using the 135 lines my eye is not distracted, just drawn in to the right lines.
For just shooting a 50 I like the S2 better. It is smoother over all and great. I don't get the interest in S3s. Their like the M6 of Nikon RFs. Goofy finder, really flare prone finder, etc. When you can get an S2 for under $500 an an SP for less than $1000 I think you have two pretty clear options right there.
The SP finder is not cluttered, AT ALL. You can have JUST the 50 lines. I only use the 50 and 85 lines. Even using the 135 lines my eye is not distracted, just drawn in to the right lines.
For just shooting a 50 I like the S2 better. It is smoother over all and great. I don't get the interest in S3s. Their like the M6 of Nikon RFs. Goofy finder, really flare prone finder, etc. When you can get an S2 for under $500 an an SP for less than $1000 I think you have two pretty clear options right there.
Mister E
Well-known
The S2 has a goofy shutter speed dial. Not only is it dual stage with the slow speeds on lower dial with the fast speeds on the upper dial it rotates when you advance the film. You can only set shutter speeds with the shutter cocked, etc. Not that big of a deal in practice, but far less modern feeling than the SP.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Some cameras like the Nikon S2 and Leica LTMs have a shutter speed dial that rotates when you fire the shutter.
I believe that the Nikon S2 is the only Nikon RF with a 1:1 finder http://www.cameraquest.com/usingthe.htm .
Bob
I believe that the Nikon S2 is the only Nikon RF with a 1:1 finder http://www.cameraquest.com/usingthe.htm .
Bob
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
It can be a big deal in practice if you interupt the dial when it turns after the shutter is fired. That could likely effect your exposure. On cameras with rotating shutter speed dials you stand a chance of messing up the shutter speed mechanism if you set the speed before cocking the camera.
Bob
Mister E
Well-known
furcafe
Veteran
I found the S2's shutter speed dial arrangement to be kind of annoying, just like the LTM/Barnack bodies.
The SP has a 1:1 finder (so does the S3), it just doesn't have as bright of a RF patch & perhaps less eye relief. Given a choice, I would go for the nicest model I could afford. IMHO, the SP works fine as a 50mm camera & gives you the option of using other focal lengths should 1 later choose to go wild.
The SP has a 1:1 finder (so does the S3), it just doesn't have as bright of a RF patch & perhaps less eye relief. Given a choice, I would go for the nicest model I could afford. IMHO, the SP works fine as a 50mm camera & gives you the option of using other focal lengths should 1 later choose to go wild.
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
OK I do stand corrected on the 1:1 finder.
Bob
Bob
VinceC
Veteran
The S2, S3, and SP (and S4, for purists) all have 1:1 finder. It is one of the most important parts of the Nikon system, as far as i'm concerned. The viewfinder becomes a window on the real world, not a microscope view of a miniature world.
The S2 is louder. It uses a rugged shutter that makes a definite "ker-thwack!" sound that is not stealthy or rangefinder-like. The SP/S3 shutter was redesigned and is rangefinder-quiet. The single 50mm frameline on the S2 makes it very suited to 50mm photography. It has a raised-ridge ring around the eyepiece that makes it a glasses scratcher even for 50mm lenses. The S3/SP changed this design to be more flush with the back of the camera.
The s2's 2-speed shutter takes getting used to. You have to raise the top of the high-speed dial to change speeds, and one of the settings allows you to activate the 1-30 speeds on the lower dial. Also, the frame counter is a more basic "set it yourself" design, where you have to remember to reset to zero after changing film, versus the automatic counter on the SP and S3. The S2 is a little heavier. The X-sync is about 1/45 or 1/50 and so has its own speed setting.
The SP has a more modern layout, identical to the F, that really helped set the standard for controls on a modern camera. I don't find the SP viewfinder to be cluttered (i like the "tunnel effect" of the frame lines.) However, it takes a bit of time to get used to the separate wide-angle finder. For a newcomer, this might be better described as "distracting" than cluttered. When a waiter or passerby offers to take a group photo of us, they invariably get a very puzzled look and just center the camera using whichever finder their eye has discovered first. In this respect, it truly is a "professional" camera -- it has to be explained. Overall, the SP finders are a little dimmer than the S2 or S3. They are finders most likely to have a washed-out RF patch, rendering them almost unusuable.
As noted above, the S3 is an excellent camera. In certain respects, I prefer it to the SP, and it is under-appreciated to the extent that it is always far more affordable than the SP. I prefer the S3 for 50mm, 35mm, and 28mm lenses. If you wear eyeglasses, it is a glasses scratcher for me because I push my eye close to the steel-rimmed finder to get that magnificent 1:1 lifesized framing with 35mm and even 28mm lenses (!) by shooting the 35mm framelines as loose guides. That finder is huge and incredible. Its full-frame view is 25mm. Lifesize. The S3 finders tend to be the brightest of the lot, a little flare prone, but not as important with 1:1 viewing. The S3 has a couple of small markings to to help with parallax framing up close. The drawback of the S3 is that framelines are etched fo 35mm, 50mm and 105mm lenses. So, when shooting a 50mm, you still have the 105mm rounded frame corners super-imposed. I found that I quickly got used to this and that you can actually use the 105mm corners to help with rule-of-thirds framing.
The S3 and SP are identical cameras except for the finder. I second the comment above that for whatever reason, the S3s tend to be the smoothest of the bunch. I have an S2, an original S3, S3-2000, original SP and SP-2005. Both S3s are the smoothest of the lot.
I used the S3 for a quite a lot of news photography in the 1990s. My shooting is now more casual and family oriented. I tend to carry the SP because of it's ability to shoot 28mms ande 85mms, my two favorite focal lengths, without unduly scratching my glasses when shooting the wides.
The S2 was my first Nikon RF. I enjoyed it, but it turned out to be a stepping stone to the S3, which is a camera I fell in love with.
The S2 is louder. It uses a rugged shutter that makes a definite "ker-thwack!" sound that is not stealthy or rangefinder-like. The SP/S3 shutter was redesigned and is rangefinder-quiet. The single 50mm frameline on the S2 makes it very suited to 50mm photography. It has a raised-ridge ring around the eyepiece that makes it a glasses scratcher even for 50mm lenses. The S3/SP changed this design to be more flush with the back of the camera.
The s2's 2-speed shutter takes getting used to. You have to raise the top of the high-speed dial to change speeds, and one of the settings allows you to activate the 1-30 speeds on the lower dial. Also, the frame counter is a more basic "set it yourself" design, where you have to remember to reset to zero after changing film, versus the automatic counter on the SP and S3. The S2 is a little heavier. The X-sync is about 1/45 or 1/50 and so has its own speed setting.
The SP has a more modern layout, identical to the F, that really helped set the standard for controls on a modern camera. I don't find the SP viewfinder to be cluttered (i like the "tunnel effect" of the frame lines.) However, it takes a bit of time to get used to the separate wide-angle finder. For a newcomer, this might be better described as "distracting" than cluttered. When a waiter or passerby offers to take a group photo of us, they invariably get a very puzzled look and just center the camera using whichever finder their eye has discovered first. In this respect, it truly is a "professional" camera -- it has to be explained. Overall, the SP finders are a little dimmer than the S2 or S3. They are finders most likely to have a washed-out RF patch, rendering them almost unusuable.
As noted above, the S3 is an excellent camera. In certain respects, I prefer it to the SP, and it is under-appreciated to the extent that it is always far more affordable than the SP. I prefer the S3 for 50mm, 35mm, and 28mm lenses. If you wear eyeglasses, it is a glasses scratcher for me because I push my eye close to the steel-rimmed finder to get that magnificent 1:1 lifesized framing with 35mm and even 28mm lenses (!) by shooting the 35mm framelines as loose guides. That finder is huge and incredible. Its full-frame view is 25mm. Lifesize. The S3 finders tend to be the brightest of the lot, a little flare prone, but not as important with 1:1 viewing. The S3 has a couple of small markings to to help with parallax framing up close. The drawback of the S3 is that framelines are etched fo 35mm, 50mm and 105mm lenses. So, when shooting a 50mm, you still have the 105mm rounded frame corners super-imposed. I found that I quickly got used to this and that you can actually use the 105mm corners to help with rule-of-thirds framing.
The S3 and SP are identical cameras except for the finder. I second the comment above that for whatever reason, the S3s tend to be the smoothest of the bunch. I have an S2, an original S3, S3-2000, original SP and SP-2005. Both S3s are the smoothest of the lot.
I used the S3 for a quite a lot of news photography in the 1990s. My shooting is now more casual and family oriented. I tend to carry the SP because of it's ability to shoot 28mms ande 85mms, my two favorite focal lengths, without unduly scratching my glasses when shooting the wides.
The S2 was my first Nikon RF. I enjoyed it, but it turned out to be a stepping stone to the S3, which is a camera I fell in love with.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
When using a 50mm with the SP, do i get just the 50mm frameline when looking through the viewfinder?
Mister E
Well-known
Yes. 10 char
VinceC
Veteran
SP has a user-select dial for 50-85-105-135 framelines. If set to 50, you just see the 50 frameline. If set to 85, it adds the 85 inside of the 50 and so on. With the 135, you have all the framelines showing, but you're always shooting with the smallest set.
Three thoughts on this: Manual framelines are cool because you're doing the thinking, not the camera/lens interface. 2nd, it's a great way to preview other lenses easily. 3rd, it demonstrates that with the 1:1 finder, you can easily shoot with 105 and 135mm lenses, something that's much harder with reduced-size finders.
Three thoughts on this: Manual framelines are cool because you're doing the thinking, not the camera/lens interface. 2nd, it's a great way to preview other lenses easily. 3rd, it demonstrates that with the 1:1 finder, you can easily shoot with 105 and 135mm lenses, something that's much harder with reduced-size finders.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
Thanks for all the help guys.
Since I found that 50mm is my preferred focal length, i have always toyed with the idea of getting a camera with a 1:1 vf for 50mm.
I know there is always the bessa but....... i want to try a Nikon (I am a fan of the Nikon F line)
I think the SP is probably the one i'd go for. 1:1 vf with only the 50mm frameline must be a joy to shoot with!!
Since I found that 50mm is my preferred focal length, i have always toyed with the idea of getting a camera with a 1:1 vf for 50mm.
I know there is always the bessa but....... i want to try a Nikon (I am a fan of the Nikon F line)
I think the SP is probably the one i'd go for. 1:1 vf with only the 50mm frameline must be a joy to shoot with!!
The SP has auto-parallax corrected framelines, they move as you focus like the Leica M3 and Canon 7. The later SP's seem to have prisms that held up better.
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Highway 61
Revisited
The S2's rotating shutter speed dial allows you to take multiexposure shots (you cock the shutter w/o advancing the film by just turning the speeds dial ccw in full) which is not possible with the SP/S3/S4.
Of course this is a very minor feature, now that I think of it twice it appears that in more than 35 years of photography practice I never shot any multiexposure photo...
Of course this is a very minor feature, now that I think of it twice it appears that in more than 35 years of photography practice I never shot any multiexposure photo...