Sonnar2
Well-known
Sphaerogon 1 : 8,0 / 1,9 cm
Perimetar 1 : 6,3/2,1 cm (or 2,5 cm?)
Fisheye (Pleon?) 210° 1: 6.3 1,6cm
These were experimental lenses for the Contax around 1936, or build in small series (50 pieces). I found lens diagrams at Kuc's book but no pictures. Anybody can send me one or post it here?
Currently I'm thinking about a page of wide-angle lense history for 35mm photography. Obviously the famous Biogon of L. Bertele (1953) wasn't the first superwideangle for the Contax RF...
cheers Frank
Perimetar 1 : 6,3/2,1 cm (or 2,5 cm?)
Fisheye (Pleon?) 210° 1: 6.3 1,6cm
These were experimental lenses for the Contax around 1936, or build in small series (50 pieces). I found lens diagrams at Kuc's book but no pictures. Anybody can send me one or post it here?
Currently I'm thinking about a page of wide-angle lense history for 35mm photography. Obviously the famous Biogon of L. Bertele (1953) wasn't the first superwideangle for the Contax RF...
cheers Frank
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xatnoc
Xatnoc
Sphaerogon, Perimetar and fisheye
Sphaerogon, Perimetar and fisheye
Hi Frank,
I can help you as I possess two of the three lenses that you are looking for. And from the third one, the fisheye, I also have a current picture, but I guess this requires authorization from the present owner. But I can mail you a picture when it still was in possession of the American Army, back in the forties.
As to the history of the three lenses: all three belonged to the famous "Zeiss Collection", a collection of about 2000 lenses that Zeiss kept for their own records and which, when the Amercian troups raced through Jena in 1945 were transported over the ocean. There, the lenses were kept for a while within the Army, but then were handed over to a company called Burke&James for storage. In the late sixties, nobody seemed to show interest for the collection anymore, and it was sold and dispersed all over the world....
I am in the process of writing an article about the Sphaerogon and the Perimetar (the lenses I own). I have taken pictures with these two lenses. My plans are to write a German article to appear in "Photodeal" and an Englsh version in the magazin of the "Zeiss Historical Society". If you are a Zeiss freak, a must to become a member!
What I already can tell you is that the sharpness of the two lenses is remakable. If I compare the Sphaerogon to the Hologon, it is almost comparable. The Perimetar, if compared to the 25mm Distagon from the Contarex, seems to be even superior or at least equal. This was largely unexpected, but underlines how far Zeiss already was with the development of their lenses before WW2.
best wishes
Stefan
Sphaerogon, Perimetar and fisheye
Hi Frank,
I can help you as I possess two of the three lenses that you are looking for. And from the third one, the fisheye, I also have a current picture, but I guess this requires authorization from the present owner. But I can mail you a picture when it still was in possession of the American Army, back in the forties.
As to the history of the three lenses: all three belonged to the famous "Zeiss Collection", a collection of about 2000 lenses that Zeiss kept for their own records and which, when the Amercian troups raced through Jena in 1945 were transported over the ocean. There, the lenses were kept for a while within the Army, but then were handed over to a company called Burke&James for storage. In the late sixties, nobody seemed to show interest for the collection anymore, and it was sold and dispersed all over the world....
I am in the process of writing an article about the Sphaerogon and the Perimetar (the lenses I own). I have taken pictures with these two lenses. My plans are to write a German article to appear in "Photodeal" and an Englsh version in the magazin of the "Zeiss Historical Society". If you are a Zeiss freak, a must to become a member!
What I already can tell you is that the sharpness of the two lenses is remakable. If I compare the Sphaerogon to the Hologon, it is almost comparable. The Perimetar, if compared to the 25mm Distagon from the Contarex, seems to be even superior or at least equal. This was largely unexpected, but underlines how far Zeiss already was with the development of their lenses before WW2.
best wishes
Stefan
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V
varjag
Guest
I would love to have a look at them too. Had no idea that Contax system wide-angle end was that wide.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
If you could put up the precise specifications along with a few pictures here, I guess a number of us would be interested. And possibly quite a bit of money spent, but that is another story. 
Sonnar2
Well-known
OK, so let's start with the basics: lens diagrams...
Perimetar 1 : 6,3/2,1 cm
Sphaerogon 1 : 8,0 / 1,9 cm
Perimetar 1 : 6,3/2,1 cm
Sphaerogon 1 : 8,0 / 1,9 cm
xatnoc
Xatnoc
Sphaerogon and Perimetar pictures
Sphaerogon and Perimetar pictures
Hi folks,
here is something to start with, better pictures will be delivered in the future. The two pictures are those that were posted when the two lenses were on sale on Ebay earlier this year. Lenses are a Sphaerogon 8/19 and a Perimetar 6.3/25, both made for Contax and ready to be launched onto the market, but deemed too expensive.
Sphaerogon and Perimetar pictures
Hi folks,
here is something to start with, better pictures will be delivered in the future. The two pictures are those that were posted when the two lenses were on sale on Ebay earlier this year. Lenses are a Sphaerogon 8/19 and a Perimetar 6.3/25, both made for Contax and ready to be launched onto the market, but deemed too expensive.
Attachments
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darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
It sounds yummy, I will be following this thread with great interest. Thank you for sharing!
dexdog
Veteran
Does anyone have any info on how to join the Zeiss Historical Society in the US? I have sent emails a couple of times from their web site and gotten no response. Thanks.
xatnoc
Xatnoc
Zeiss Historica Website
Zeiss Historica Website
check:
http://www.zeisshistorica.org/
go to membership area and/or submit your request directly to the president:
Larry Gubas
8240 Bradley Road
Las Vegas, NV 89131
Phone: 702-396-5012
email: larrygubas@earthlink.net
Zeiss Historica Website
check:
http://www.zeisshistorica.org/
go to membership area and/or submit your request directly to the president:
Larry Gubas
8240 Bradley Road
Las Vegas, NV 89131
Phone: 702-396-5012
email: larrygubas@earthlink.net
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dexdog
Veteran
Thanks, I will give it another try.
drmatthes
Zeiss Addict
Oh, PLEASE, xatnoc -
... come on and let's have more of this stuff. I mean everybody knows this Sonnar and Biogon talk in which I have taken part myself - but who can actually USE one of those super rare lenses? There may be only one or two in this funny world... As far as I am concerned, I would like to see larger pictures of the lenses, and pictures taken with these lenses as well. By the name of xatnoc I guess you might after all own one or two working Contaxes to do the job, they can't be all working the other way 'round, can they?
We're still WAITING!
Enjoy,
Jesko
______________
2006 AD
800 yrs Dresden
80 yrs Zeiss Ikon
... come on and let's have more of this stuff. I mean everybody knows this Sonnar and Biogon talk in which I have taken part myself - but who can actually USE one of those super rare lenses? There may be only one or two in this funny world... As far as I am concerned, I would like to see larger pictures of the lenses, and pictures taken with these lenses as well. By the name of xatnoc I guess you might after all own one or two working Contaxes to do the job, they can't be all working the other way 'round, can they?
We're still WAITING!
Enjoy,
Jesko
______________
2006 AD
800 yrs Dresden
80 yrs Zeiss Ikon
xatnoc
Xatnoc
patience.....
patience.....
you have to be patient. I will have to compile the pictures and then write the article. And then publish it... this will take at least another year.
The whole community (including myself) has been waiting decades to see these lenses come to light, so the time that you will have to wait to see the article is minimal, compared to their own history.
Had you been member of the Zeiss Historical Society (ZSH, see also an earlier post within this thread), you would have had the opportunity to see an article on files of the American Army, where exactly these lenses were pictured and described as part of the rarities of the Zeiss Collection. The ZSH issue I refer to appeared in spring 2005, so not that long ago.
Maybe worth becoming member of this Society!
patience.....
you have to be patient. I will have to compile the pictures and then write the article. And then publish it... this will take at least another year.
The whole community (including myself) has been waiting decades to see these lenses come to light, so the time that you will have to wait to see the article is minimal, compared to their own history.
Had you been member of the Zeiss Historical Society (ZSH, see also an earlier post within this thread), you would have had the opportunity to see an article on files of the American Army, where exactly these lenses were pictured and described as part of the rarities of the Zeiss Collection. The ZSH issue I refer to appeared in spring 2005, so not that long ago.
Maybe worth becoming member of this Society!
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Sonnar2
Well-known
I have to say, you proved a keen sence of optical history with your buy earlier this year, xatnoc! Bad luck that I found the "Contax I" book not a bit before ebay has erased the pictures of that particular auctions in April...!
cheers Frank
cheers Frank
xatnoc
Xatnoc
more experimental wide angle lenses from Zeiss made before WW2
more experimental wide angle lenses from Zeiss made before WW2
Just to expand your knowledge on how far Zeiss was before WW2:
there were other wide angle constructions made for Contax, such as the Hypergon 8.0/25mm smilar to the Topogon. And there is even a report on a Spaherogon 8.0/16mm, made in 1937 shortly before the war.
On the normal lens side, there were attempts to generate a 1.4/50mm Sonnar.
On the tele side, there have been other numerous lenses.
These data are all from the Zeiss Collection compilation.
It appears that during WW2, Zeiss was under heavy pressure to develop lenses for military purposes, for example a 1.5/400mm ("Projekt Uhu" or "eagle owl"), made for night vision in combination with a infrared searchlight, mounted on a tank. Amazing that 1.5 are possible with 400mm. This lens is presumed to weight more than 10 kg.
more experimental wide angle lenses from Zeiss made before WW2
Just to expand your knowledge on how far Zeiss was before WW2:
there were other wide angle constructions made for Contax, such as the Hypergon 8.0/25mm smilar to the Topogon. And there is even a report on a Spaherogon 8.0/16mm, made in 1937 shortly before the war.
On the normal lens side, there were attempts to generate a 1.4/50mm Sonnar.
On the tele side, there have been other numerous lenses.
These data are all from the Zeiss Collection compilation.
It appears that during WW2, Zeiss was under heavy pressure to develop lenses for military purposes, for example a 1.5/400mm ("Projekt Uhu" or "eagle owl"), made for night vision in combination with a infrared searchlight, mounted on a tank. Amazing that 1.5 are possible with 400mm. This lens is presumed to weight more than 10 kg.
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Xmas
Veteran
Stefan
These are both three group lenses, as befits pre coating technology?
Why did Zeiss then develop different lenses post WWII did the US deny their existence/samples to the W German management?
This seems as paradoxial as Zeiss not marketing the 16mm Hologon in M mount.
Noel
P.S. There was a jagerpanzer with a IR sighting system, a worthy opponent for any crepescule T35/85...
These are both three group lenses, as befits pre coating technology?
Why did Zeiss then develop different lenses post WWII did the US deny their existence/samples to the W German management?
This seems as paradoxial as Zeiss not marketing the 16mm Hologon in M mount.
Noel
P.S. There was a jagerpanzer with a IR sighting system, a worthy opponent for any crepescule T35/85...
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xatnoc
Xatnoc
Sphaerogon and Perimetar
Sphaerogon and Perimetar
These two lenses were made to die, as they were much too expensive. The Sphaerogon was way too heavy and bulky and covered the viewer such that an extra viewer was needed to see the view again. The Perimetar, on the other hand, consisted of 9 lenses (!) and had a concave front lens which was particularly expensive for manufacturing.
After the war, Zeiss made the 21mm Bioogn, instead, of which you can see a prototype for sale in a forthcoming auction by Westlicht Auctions (Nov. 19, 2006).
Zeiss Stuttgart knew exactly what the collegaues in Jena had worked on before WW2, it was just decided not to go into these proejcts. Possibly, the market was not ready yet for such extreme wide angle lenses.
Sphaerogon and Perimetar
These two lenses were made to die, as they were much too expensive. The Sphaerogon was way too heavy and bulky and covered the viewer such that an extra viewer was needed to see the view again. The Perimetar, on the other hand, consisted of 9 lenses (!) and had a concave front lens which was particularly expensive for manufacturing.
After the war, Zeiss made the 21mm Bioogn, instead, of which you can see a prototype for sale in a forthcoming auction by Westlicht Auctions (Nov. 19, 2006).
Zeiss Stuttgart knew exactly what the collegaues in Jena had worked on before WW2, it was just decided not to go into these proejcts. Possibly, the market was not ready yet for such extreme wide angle lenses.
ErnestoJL
Well-known
Thank you Stefan for sharing the pictures and info about these two interesting lenses.
Seeing all these, one can realize that Zeiss Ikon was decided to beat absolutely Leitz in any possible field where their photographic products can compete. Zeiss post war fate was (IMHO) the reason why it didn´t happen.
It seems also that since many years ago, Zeiss wasn´t tied only to orthodox lens design: the 1968 Ultron 50mm 1.8 designed for the ZI-V Icarex as top line normal lens was another example of a concave front lens, but evidence tells this wasn´t the only one nor the first.
Again thank you.
Ernesto
Seeing all these, one can realize that Zeiss Ikon was decided to beat absolutely Leitz in any possible field where their photographic products can compete. Zeiss post war fate was (IMHO) the reason why it didn´t happen.
It seems also that since many years ago, Zeiss wasn´t tied only to orthodox lens design: the 1968 Ultron 50mm 1.8 designed for the ZI-V Icarex as top line normal lens was another example of a concave front lens, but evidence tells this wasn´t the only one nor the first.
Again thank you.
Ernesto
xatnoc
Xatnoc
For those that are still interested to learn more about these remarkable lenses, there is a website of an Italian guy who describes these lenses a little more. Unfortunatly, the site is in Italian, so you might use AltaVista Babel Fish to get it translated.
Check:
http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/Perimetar_Sphaerogon_Pleon/00_pag.htm
Check:
http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/Perimetar_Sphaerogon_Pleon/00_pag.htm
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Mazurka
Well-known
ErnestoJL said:
This lens had the "Carl Zeiss Ultron" moniker probably because it was originally a Voigtlander design. Most lenses made for the Icarex had Voigtlander lens names, except for the Tessar, Pantar and Distagon which bore, of course, Zeiss trade names.
Hence, even Zeiss had bought out Voigtlander by that time, they seemed careful to distinguish lenses having different parentage.
Sonnar2
Well-known
This guy (Marco Cavani; makeshttp://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcoca...eon/00_pag.htm) is a great patent researcher...!