Spot Free Negs For Scanning

[mike goldberg]

Hi...

I think this thread belongs in Gen. Discussion because the GOAL is to get great scans. I've learned from some members, that Digital ICE will NOT work with regular negs, since the Infrared can't read them.

It's been approx 15 years since I developed my own B/W negs, and I remember rinsing them in a solution of Photoflo before drying.
SPECIFIC QUESTIONS Re: Washing & Drying:

- If Photoflo is not available in Tel Aviv, what would be a good substitute...
a drop or 2 of gentle dishwashing detergent?

- The WATER over here is awful, so bottled spring water could be used.

- The DUST problem is even worse, with summer construction & renovations nearby... thus, some kind of a drying cabinet would have to be devised.

B/W negs, already cut into strips of 6 in my archive, may have to be rewashed as well... so, some kind of WORKFLOW must be established.

FEEDBACK WELCOME; the goal here is quality B & W scans.
Thanks & ciao,
Mike

 

[Buze]

I just use a rocket blower to remove most of the dust, and do the rest on the computer.

I use photoshop for cleaning scan. It takes very very little time to do it with a bit of strategy and practice... ICE is too slow, and regularly eats details too so I judt don't use it.

The "Dust and Scratches" of Photoshop is not to be used as is, but it's a great aid:

+ Process the image as you like, including sharpening etc.
+ When done, duplicate the layer, and apply "dust and scratches" until all the defects are gone. ignore the loss of details you want to keep, concentrate on the defects only
+ When done, create an empty mask for that layer, and invert it so it's "empty" (solid black)
+ Click on them mask, select the brush tool and the color "white"
+ Go over the image at 100% and click on the dust/scratches. This will activate the cleaned layer just for the parts that have to be cleaned.
+ When done, flatten

This technic works a LOT better than the spot healing tool, because the spot healing works only for uniform areas; if you have a scratch over a detail or on a non-uniform place the spot healing tool always makes things worse. The selective "dust and scratches" takes care of it properly...

 

[sleepyhead]

Hi, I wouldn't use bottled spring water since those have a high content of dissolved minerals (usually) - what you want is bottled DISTILLED water. I've not tried the technique that Buze has described above, BUT I WILL, as it sounds quite sensible and straightforward. I think the idea of re-washing a drying a bunch of negative strips could run the risk of introducing new scratches - perhaps best leave that only for any strips that are really dirty already, but not a routine practice.

Good luck, Yaron

 

[ChrisN]

Also do a search of the archives for threads discussing drying film on the reel - I have not tried it but it sounded promising.

Otherwise, demineralised water (battery water for car batteries - I buy it in 4 litre bottles in the supermarket) for the final wash. If you can't get photoflo try a few drops of washing-up detergent in a litre of water just for the final rinse.

 

[mike goldberg]

Re: my original Post: SPOT FREE NEGS FOR SCANNING
Mike here again,

Thanks for the tips on Neg washing, drying & handling.
The Reply by Buze, with step by step instructions on handling spots, etc...
in Photoshop is great.

I'm about to switch to Photoshop from PS Pro 8.
There will be a learning curve, and it will be well worth it.

Gracias & ciao,
Mike

 

[kully]

Mike, I live in the South-east of England, the water here is terrible for limescale.

This is how I get super-clean B&W negs for scanning:

+ Use Brita-filtered water for the chemical dilutions.
+ When finished wash in normal tap water for ~7-10 minutes
+ Empty tank and fill with filtered water and a tiny amount of fairy liquid.
+ gently rotate the spirals.
+ squeegee + cut
+ hang in my dining room

Then I give the negs a wipe with a microfibre cloth before putting them in the scanner.

 

[kaiyen]

hang in dining room? wow.

Using distilled water at the end (final rinse plus photo-flo for me) helps a lot. Distilled water sloughs off he film much better. Then it's a matter of drying the film in a dust free enviroment. You can do this in a simple enclosure, even a garment bag. For another option. you can build a cylindrical system with a hari dryer on one end. The air from the dryer is actually very dust free, and the film is dry in 10 minutes.

allan

 

[ZorkiKat]

In the absence of photoflo, I use Joy dishwashing detergent. A couple of drops or two in 500 ml water can work. Not again orthodox, and some might point dangers against using this, but it certainly works with my film. Been doing this for the last two years, since my Photoflo finally ran out after 6 years. The negatives seem to be doing fine just like those which had passed through real Photoflo. BTW, using household detergents for final wetting was acceptable in past...😀

 

[ernie]

We give a final rinse in distilled water with a few drops of Ilfotol wetting agent added; however many years ago when I started developing my own film I used a mixture of methalated spirits and distilled water for the final rinse. Mixed about 1 part meths to 2 parts water if I remember correctly.

 

[phototone]

Getting spot and dirt-free scans is almost impossible in any case. One just tries to minimise the dust. The reason is the type of light source used in film scanners is very similar in effect to a "point-source" light as used in an enlarger. The scanning process, particularly with sharpening, will exagerate what little dust is present on the negative. When I was printing my negatives with my diffusion (Color head) enlarger, I almost never needed to spot or retouch the prints, but now with scanning in both color and b/w almost every image needs some work. However, the amount of detail in good scans is amazing, and the printing process (inkjet) is so much more convenient.

 

[tkluck]

My method is to use Edwal LFN in distilled water if I have it otherwise I just put it in a full tank after the rinse (only need a few drops). This stuff works incredibly well. I used to use PhotoFlo but someone told me years ago about LFN. PhotoFlo to me was terrible. It always left streaks on the negatives no matter what I did. I am glad to have bid it a not so fond farewell.

My other method is for when I am lazy and I just hang up the film. I of course get water spots. I have found that a micrro fiber cloth and a little breath does the trick. The key is to do it on a CLEAN surface (found this out the hard way) and wipe only once in only one direction. Cleans like a charm.

Less is better. On the lable: "Scum can form on the film if concentration is excessive"
Use less than the recomended dosage of PhotoFlo, around half the 1/200 it sez on the bottle seems to work fine (Kodak IS selling the stuff...)
Never used any thing else, mainly brecause my 16 oz. bottle is a lifetime supply (even for someone half my age).

 

[hth]

I have had great success lately with a final wash of water coming out of a de-humidifier, I guess it has similar properties to demineralized water.

Then I just hang it up in the bathroom (shower it with some more of that water from top to bottom) and let it dry. Before putting it into the scanner, I run the strip through a antistatic brush, put it in the holder and blow compressed air over it.

/Håkan

 

[tkluck]

Dust and the scanner:
(when scanning Minox negatives, with cover glass, also relevent to 35mm)
1. canned air
2. strong light source
3. Optivisor and/or loup (like the old guy in "Toy Story")
4. Microfiber cloth
5. Antistatic eyeglass cleaner
6. white cotton gloves (no one has to see you...)
7. More canned air (watch for a sale. I ran an air line from my air brush compressor)
8. Sacrifice chicken (required only for Minox negs)

The excessive compulcive habits engindered by working with the Minox do seem to benefit larger formats. Like the Brits have said "Train hard, fight easy." Any other ancients remember touchup fluid? Touching up a big pile of crappy prints will inspire you keep things clean better than a Health Dept. VD pamphlet.

 

[Michael I.]

I also live in Israel (Beer Sheba) and that is what I do :

After the fixer stage I do the Ilford wash followed by a 30 second immersion in agfaflo(the alternative to kodak hypo)dilluted by distilled water . Then squeege the water between two wet fingers that hang in a closed bathroom after turning the hot water for a minute or so to get the air moist. It gives good but not great results.

 

[amateriat]

Since coming back to souping my own b/w film last year, the big deal has been with film drying.

Perhaps because of relative water quality where I live (NYC), I haven't had a major problem with water spotting, although I tend to give my film a thorough wash (I'm going to buy a dedicated high-pressure/high-efficiency film washer in the near future to cut down on wash-times). I was lucky to pick up a Prinz film dryer (via That Auction Site) in excellent shape, and I think this has been an aid to relatively dust-free negs (the scans I've made have required just a modest amount of spotting, although, like a few people here, I've cut-n-pasted Buze's PS method, which sounds very interesting...BIG thanks for sharing that, Buze).

Of course, when I'm shooting something for someone else, and on a tight-ish deadline (but sometimes even for my own stuff), I'll simply shoot Ilford XP2 and scan with Digital ICE. It's good to have options.


- Barrett