spousal support for nude photography

[Ergo]

Also,im boring and bored.

 

[FrankS]

Melanie, in some instances you have risen above, and sparred with a cheeky poster (for example: me with a polygamy inference) but other times you have chosen to play the indignant role (as in the case above). A sense of humour is always preferable. Female members are highly valued by myself and others, but there is a playfulness here at RFF that differentiates us from PNet.

When you said: "...yes, I realize it is a joke..." then your protestations, which presume the seriousness of the said comment, are baseless.

 

[Ergo]

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

frank typed p.net

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Ergo I'd like you to take a photo of FrankS' nude...;- )

Jan...you're objectifying Frank, you know? How dismissive. FrankS is male...right? I think inherently that's not objectifying...

OK, dismiss that.

 

[MelanieC]

Female members are highly valued by myself and others...

Sure, as long as we're willing to play a certain role and stay in line.

I realize that fun girls are supposed to laugh and go along with whatever the boys do -- sorry to not be playing along this time. Frank, we've had fun in the past but if you can't see the difference between one situation and another, and allow that the same sort of behavior means different things in different contexts, I don't know what to say to you.

For the record, I also agree with Devil's Advocate. And there have been a lot of interesting contributions to this thread. But I'm getting a bit tired of Ergo's continued tone-deafness, not to mention a truly spectacular talent for putting his foot into his mouth (look, Ergo, you may indeed be twice my age and therefore inherently deserving of my respect, but I'm afraid I don't have any left for you after your last couple of posts) and although I am sure all you guys are convinced that I'm just some sort of touchy militant feminist with a chip on my shoulder (which is, by the way, a very classic way of dismissing the concerns of the minority), I'm afraid I'm done with this discussion.

Have fun, boys.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I love it when irony loses on itself.

 

[FrankS]

"Have fun, boys."

Basically/generally, that's my goal.

"Sure, as long as we're willing to play a certain role and stay in line."

No, just as long as you don't make broad brush generalizations about nude photography. (I actually agree with you on the true motives of men, but since we're being politically correct now, it's wrong!)

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

although I'm remnided of some nudes of her, taken by someone else a number of years back, that somehow wound up on the 'Net, which she was somewhat miffed about but not crazy-upset. This is not a way to establish trust.

It is unfortunate when the few run over the reputation of the many. This trust issue is something which permeates through all levels of this North American society. Women are more than justified to think and feel the way they feel about men in general, calling them boys, pigs, objectifiers, etc., either explicitly or implicitly. The fact of the matter is that men have earned that reputation through the ages. And in recent memory, there has been a psychological pathology that is difficult to get rid of. This creates a resentment on all sides of the sex aisle, and those with the level-headedness to see each other with respect have a very steep hill to climb, cultural, social, legal and psychological.

In other words: it sucks to have never left pre-school.

Trust, in any relationship, is monumental. I have always considered myself lucky that both my SO and myself trust each other in this respect. We have no problem with this sort of "issue".

 

[Ergo]

I agree with everything ever said,done and thought in all universes.

Otherwise it would all be different.

 

[edodo]

Wow, this thread has turn bitter! Melanie I love women, and I am almost a feminist, at least I am anti machists as much as my male condition permits. When you talk about the objectifation of the woman, well for me the summum of objectifying is the fashion photos where the models actually are not the central interest but the clothes or the jewel or the sport car, even if they are dressed, those poor women are just like plastic models behind some shop windows... When in nude at least, my two cents is that the photog values and expresses the true indentity of the model.

 

[Diggin99]

Interesting topic. I have many thoughts bouncing in my head so lets see what tumbles out...

I responded to the poll that it is not something I am interested in doing myself....I don't do many photos of people with their clothes on much less off!

I don't have a problem with nude photography, nore do I have a problem with photographing someone you think is sexy....I tend to think this is a cultural variable....(I would have been so hot just a few centuries back....born too late!)...

I would agree with others here and say that what is important is what the photograph is saying, how it is done...for example:

I like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/heathercorinna/148882585/

I don't like almost any photo from the websites here:
http://www.photographysites.com/html/nude-photography.shtml

I suppost that means I like "artistic" nudes....something that shows curves, is suggestive but not explicite.

Just a few thoughts.....

Nancy

 

[wintoid]

Any (str8) man who says he is photographing nude women for "artistic" reasons --asserting that as a distinct and unconnected to him finding them attractive -- is lying to placate a jealous and insecure woman, or because he is too repressed to admit that he (shock and horror!) is aroused by members of the opposite sex in a condition of undress 😀 .

I find some women arousing and nudity is a taboo-breaker, which can also be arousing. Having said that, I'm not like some loaded cannon that's completely out of control and unable to contain myself in the presence of a nude woman 😀

I could certainly photograph nude woman for "artistic reasons" and it would be no lie, and I'm pretty sure my partner would support me.

 

[eddie con]

dopamine not testosterone

dopamine not testosterone

shooting a nude is not arousing for me. the need to focus on the technical aspects just triggers a different set of hormones. they have identified this as dopamine. and this hormone presses us on to search for and achieve the right perspective, right aperture, right pose, right focus, etc. and, i remember my favorite model going exaspirated with my obsession over the right kind of facial expression. that, alone, can dowse the little erection her nudity may evoke. is this convincing enough, my dear wife? :angel:

 

[devils-advocate]

I'm afraid I'm done with this discussion.

It is sad but interesting how the *discussion* of nude photography has managed to create mutual of feelings of disrespectedness (my new word of the day) between the men and women on the forum, almost as a microcosm of the way in which nude photography itself does at a broader level.

While a discussion of the intrinsic maleness of photography as a medium is beyond the scope of this thread, it is notable that there are proportionately so few women involved, and troubling that such a fine photographer as Melanie encounters a tenor of conversation which turns her off participating. Articulate and intelligent women bring a different and valuable perspective to coinversations about photography, which enrich communities such as this.

Ironically, I think a good case could be made that rangefinder photography is amongst the least "male" iterations of the art: smaller less obtrusive cameras, a more observational (as opposed to instrusional) style of work, a more contextual framing of subject (as opposed to the visual-extraction paradigm of an slr with a zoom lens) etc., etc.

All of which is to say, I hope Mel's willing to stick around to play, playground bullies (unintentional and otherwise) notwithstanding. 😱


- N.

 

[FrankS]

Playground bullies? I don't know about that. Aren't we just expressing our opinions and arguing our points? Isn't this at least a bit more ineresting than everyone agreeing?

Okay fine then, I'm afraid I'm done with this conversation!

 

[devils-advocate]

Playground bullies?

...didn't mean you Frank. I think you and MelC were talking at well-intention cross-purposes.

 

[Ergo]

must mean me..yup im a loser

 

[jody]

Playground bullies? I don't know about that. Aren't we just expressing our opinions and arguing our points? Isn't this at least a bit more ineresting than everyone agreeing?

You would think so. I find it funny how the subject of nude photography causes such a ruckus. Melanies point reminds me of this photo.

I want to photograph nudes because that is what I like and I want to do men and women or couples. I find it challenging to come up with a photo that is more art than porn.

I would as a man pose for you Melanie. Just picken Don't let them get to you.

 

[vladhed]

This is pretty much my reaction to nude photographs, of both men and women (but of course, 99.9% of nude photographs are of women, for reasons that have already been explored well by other posters). I recently went to a large photo show (the Photo Fair in San Francisco) and saw plenty of nude photos and almost none of them were anything special -- it was just "Hey look, yet another photo of some woman's boobs. Whee."

Pretty much my reaction - and I'm a guy who likes women's boobs! It somehow "cheapens" the medium. I don't find that it takes any special skill to photograph boobs, unlike drawing and painting, where rendering the human form is a bit of a specialty. Drawing and painting of nudes is far more legitimate

It's not that I don't think there is artistic value in nude photography; I just think that most guys (and it is mostly guys) who claim that they are into photographing nudes for "artistic" reasons are full of crap.

I have taken "intimate" photos of my wife, that by all accounts would be considered artistic - they've been blurry and non-conventional in their framing and composition - an attempt to capture the moment.

However because my feelings about these photographs is so intensely personal, I would never, ever consider showing them to anyone. To show these photos as art I would have to be, so to speak, "full of crap".

 

[Finder]

Wow. What a thread.

I am a photographer and I have no interests in "nude" pictures in and of themselves. Here are a few thoughts I have:

The word "nude" does not specify a gender. I certainly think both Venus de Milo and Michealangelo's David are beautiful works. Nor does the word specify function - it could be used aesthetically, sexually, or scientifically. I think an interest in "nude" photography does not limit or fix an attitude. Although, I think if you are worried that your partner would approve, the idea of inappropriate behavior or reasons is being implied - I don't mean scientifically. This is probably where the problem is.

I think the reason for doing "nudes" is as varied as people are. I am sure there are some who get sexual gratification from it. But there again there is no gender implied here. I guess we could find statistics that point to one group doing it more than another, but that is a matter of degree rather than an absolute difference. Are women sex objects? Yes, and so are men. Do you need to be naked to be a sex object, no. It would appear that both sexes exploit their sexuality for their own benefit. The degree on how far that is exploited changes as society changes. Is Demi Moore exploiting her sexually or being exploited?

I cannot remember the photographer's name, but she did a series of nude protraits of her children. Porn? Well, she had her problems with the authorities, but where was the dirty mind - in the viewer or in the artist? Clearly David is not pornagraphic. It is an amazing piece of work. Could someone be aroused by it. Maybe, but it is not a problem of the work.

Are interests in sexuallity wrong? We are sexual animals. Wouldn't be many of us around if we were not. I think interest in the form of the opposite gender is natural. Obviously, many photographers pursue interests. Some are attracted to violence, some to geologic forms, the human body is just another interest and maybe the artist is interested in sexuallity. (I do find it interesting that violence and its portrayal is so accepted in US society, but sex which is a natural function of life is hidden and taboo. I also think we would have fewer problems if we went to bed with our enemies than to war with them.)

Regardless of the type of work, nude, still life, nature, journalism, the work I like the best comes from mature artists. Not in the sense of a mature career, but a mature human being. Pornography (meaning a work intended to arouse you) is not a mature form of art.