Staining developers and questions

[mrtoml]

I am getting back into analogue photography after several years away and want to try it again in addition to digital. I used to use mainly staining developers. Last I used was called Prescysol I think, but it is no longer available. What do people use nowadays? I am in the UK.

I have just ordered some R09 Rodinal equivalent and Foma films (200 and 400) to get started. The landscape seems to have changed a lot since I was last here.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

My advice is to use Ilford film; the Foma 400 film is extremely grainy no matter what you develop it in, and Rodinal makes it even worse. I have not tried the 200 Foma. Foma 100 is decent film, it renders almost exactly the same as Ilford FP4, but its true speed is only about 50.

I used to use PMK extensively; Ilford FP4 and HP5 both look great in it, as does Foma 100.

 

[Freakscene]

PMK is very good. In staining developers I prefer Pyrocat because the results are similar to PMK but Pyrocat preserves more film speed. In the UK Photographer’s Formulary Pyrocat seems to be distributed by Still Photographic https://www.stillphotographic.com/shop

I also very much like Moersch developers.
https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/lang:en
Moersch Pyro 48 produces more proportional stain (as opposed to just general staining) than any other developer I have ever tried, and works well with Foma 200. Finol and Tanol are also both excellent and very interesting. Moersch is distributed in the UK by Silverprint https://silverprint.co.uk/search?q=Moersch or you can buy them from the Moersch store.

I used a lot of Barry Thornton’s developers, but the formulae largely disappeared when he died in 2003.

Marty

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

I am very happy with Foma 200 (135 - the 120 has some real emulsion issues) at 125 in PMK Pyro for 8 minutes (allowing an extra 15 seconds for developing if you've done a pre-wash. Chriscrawford has a superb guide to developing with PMK on his website - essential reading.

400 is very grainy and I would not use it, at all. 100 is excellent, 200 has some T grain. Either way I'd avoid Rodinal unless you want grain (I only now use it for test rolls in cameras I want to check out - it's cheap and lasts forever).

 

[mrtoml]

My advice is to use Ilford film; the Foma 400 film is extremely grainy no matter what you develop it in, and Rodinal makes it even worse. I have not tried the 200 Foma. Foma 100 is decent film, it renders almost exactly the same as Ilford FP4, but its true speed is only about 50.

I used to use PMK extensively; Ilford FP4 and HP5 both look great in it, as does Foma 100.

Thanks. I think I will probably migrate to FP4 and HP5. I was using Tri-X a lot, but the price seems to have gone through the roof.

I got the Foma as it is cheap just to get back into things. I have had good results in the past with the 200 and I don’t mind some grain (after shooting digital it will make a refreshing change).

 

[mrtoml]

PMK is very good. In staining developers I prefer Pyrocat because the results are similar to PMK but Pyrocat preserves more film speed. In the UK Photographer’s Formulary Pyrocat seems to be distributed by Still Photographic https://www.stillphotographic.com/shop

I also very much like Moersch developers.
https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/lang:en
Moersch Pyro 48 produces more proportional stain (as opposed to just general staining) than any other developer I have ever tried, and works well with Foma 200. Finol and Tanol are also both excellent and very interesting. Moersch is distributed in the UK by Silverprint https://silverprint.co.uk/search?q=Moersch or you can buy them from the Moersch store.

I used a lot of Barry Thornton’s developers, but the formulae largely disappeared when he died in 2003.

Marty

Thanks. I used to use Moersch stuff a lot. I will check them out again.

 

[mrtoml]

I am very happy with Foma 200 (135 - the 120 has some real emulsion issues) at 125 in PMK Pyro for 8 minutes (allowing an extra 15 seconds for developing if you've done a pre-wash. Chriscrawford has a superb guide to developing with PMK on his website - essential reading.

400 is very grainy and I would not use it, at all. 100 is excellent, 200 has some T grain. Either way I'd avoid Rodinal unless you want grain (I only now use it for test rolls in cameras I want to check out - it's cheap and lasts forever).

Thanks, Charles. I will see about getting PMK.

I also found a box of Diafine. Now I just need 2 gallon jugs to mix it in...

 

[Bill Clark]

I’ve used some of them as there are several.


“In 1969, while photographing in Canyon Del Puerto, California, Wimberley "saw that physical objects, such as trees, also have a tangible and real spiritual dimension that can be perceived." After this experience, he began working exclusively with black-and-white film because he felt that, "black and white photography had the potential to embody and communicate the spiritual aspect of things."

A significant part of Wimberley's experimentation was in the area of film developers. In 1969, he began experimenting with the forgotten photographic developing agent Pyrogallol. In 1977, Petersen Photographic published Wimberley's formula for WD2D, a pyrogallol-based film developer. He says, "When I first made black and white prints I could not attain the tonal characteristics I could see in my mind. WD2D gave me the tonal characteristics I needed to best communicate what I needed to communicate." WD2D is similar to other pyrogallol-based film developers because it promotes high sharpness and granularity while smoothing grain using a dye mask. However, WD2D differs from older pyrogallol-based film developers like the ABC Pyro formula used by Edward Weston because WD2D is designed to work well with modern, single-emulsion black-and-white films.”

Article:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wimberley

 

[mrtoml]

I’ve used some of them as there are several.

“In 1969, while photographing in Canyon Del Puerto, California, Wimberley "saw that physical objects, such as trees, also have a tangible and real spiritual dimension that can be perceived." After this experience, he began working exclusively with black-and-white film because he felt that, "black and white photography had the potential to embody and communicate the spiritual aspect of things."

A significant part of Wimberley's experimentation was in the area of film developers. In 1969, he began experimenting with the forgotten photographic developing agent Pyrogallol. In 1977, Petersen Photographic published Wimberley's formula for WD2D, a pyrogallol-based film developer. He says, "When I first made black and white prints I could not attain the tonal characteristics I could see in my mind. WD2D gave me the tonal characteristics I needed to best communicate what I needed to communicate." WD2D is similar to other pyrogallol-based film developers because it promotes high sharpness and granularity while smoothing grain using a dye mask. However, WD2D differs from older pyrogallol-based film developers like the ABC Pyro formula used by Edward Weston because WD2D is designed to work well with modern, single-emulsion black-and-white films.”

Article:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wimberley

Interesting article. Thanks, Bill.

I have found 2 alternative candidates. One is called tanol and one is called finol. They are from Moersch and available in the UK. Both staining developers mentioned by Marty above. I think I will try these.

 

[Freakscene]

Interesting article. Thanks, Bill.

I have found 2 alternative candidates. One is called tanol and one is called finol. They are from Moersch and available in the uk. Both staining developers mentioned by Marty above. I think I will try these.

Buy some alkaline fixer when you buy the developers. Acid fix removes a substantial proportion of the stain. This applies whichever staining developer you choose.

Marty

 

[mrtoml]

Thanks for reminding me, Marty.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Mark, I used PMK and then switched to Pyrocat HD. For negatives up to 4x5" i print with a cold light head and found the heavy stain w PMK called for very long print times. With Pyrocat I still have great highlight separation at shorter times. I'm not sure where you can get it in the UK...though i remember some were ordering from lotusview cameras. Welcome back to the dark side.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Mark, I'm not sure where you can get it in the UK..

Marty's link to https://www.stillphotographic.com/shop

brings up all that is needed from the UK. The prices are decent, although the volumes made up are enormous! I must try Pyrocat, the loss of speed is my one bugbear with PMK.

I have typically in the past ordered Moersch products direct from Fotoimpex in Berlin, as they have been significantly cheaper than anything imported by UK dealers. However, Brexit issues mean I haven't tried of late, but still worth checking out. The fixer is superbly economical. I haven't been impressed by Tanol Speed.

 

[johnrt]

This Nucleol BF 200 reissue has recently turned up on the Nik & Trick store, does anyone have any knowledge or experience with this staining developer?

https://ntphotoworks.com/product/ornano-bellini-nucleol-bf200-pyrocat-film-developer/

 

[mrtoml]

Marty's link to https://www.stillphotographic.com/shop

brings up all that is needed from the UK. The prices are decent, although the volumes made up are enormous! I must try Pyrocat, the loss of speed is my one bugbear with PMK.

I have typically in the past ordered Moersch products direct from Fotoimpex in Berlin, as they have been significantly cheaper than anything imported by UK dealers. However, Brexit issues mean I haven't tried of late, but still worth checking out. The fixer is superbly economical. I haven't been impressed by Tanol Speed.

Have you tried Finol? I ordered the regular Tanol to try.

 

[mrtoml]

This Nucleol BF 200 reissue has recently turned up on the Nik & Trick store, does anyone have any knowledge or experience with this staining developer?

https://ntphotoworks.com/product/ornano-bellini-nucleol-bf200-pyrocat-film-developer/

That looks interesting as does their liquid Diafine.