stand development times

[jett]

From the Rodinal 1:100 thread, P. Lynn Miller, outlines his stand development times: It's basically 1 hour for box speed and 2 hours for +4 pushes. How should I rate it my film if my push falls somewhere in between?

From reading the thread, I got the impression that times don't matter all too much because the developer gets exhausted.

 

[charjohncarter]

Exhaustion depends on how much volume of 1+100 solution you use. I found when I tried this before I got discussed with it, that a 36 roll developed differently than a 24 when I used 500ml of solution. This was just to 'hang loose' for me, so I now use real times.

But to answer your question you MAY not have any trouble with anywhere in between. There is always trouble with this method; it is just how much you care about that trouble.

 

[visiondr]

That's correct, stand development is all about volume of developer per frame of film. I've standardized on 4ml of Rodinal per 480ml of total solution per roll of film. See my Flickr stream for examples - the results are consistent and produce a lovely tonality.

 

[jett]

Exhaustion depends on how much volume of 1+100 solution you use. I found when I tried this before I got discussed with it, that a 36 roll developed differently than a 24 when I used 500ml of solution. This was just to 'hang loose' for me, so I now use real times.

But to answer your question you MAY not have any trouble with anywhere in between. There is always trouble with this method; it is just how much you care about that trouble.

What do you mean by trouble? Do you mean that the results are inconsistent? Also, can stand development be used in place of "normal development" to bring out shadow details on a push?

 

[charjohncarter]

What do you mean by trouble? Do you mean that the results are inconsistent? Also, can stand development be used in place of "normal development" to bring out shadow details on a push?

Yes, inconsistent, uneven, and with 35mm especially streaking, but this is up to you (some say that using a plastic reel and tank makes thing worst, this may be true). Many people swear by it, but I also like other developers better than Rodinal for stand.

On your second question, stand development is really for one specific type of tonal scene. (But now, especially with roll film users, they use it as a general development technique. So I'm not sure what they are trying to get from it.) It is actually for scenes that have a very large difference between the darkest and the brightest parts of the scene. The exhaustion that you speak of only takes place in the highlighted areas (this is from developer exhaustion by the amount of developer available and lack of agitation which keeps fresh developer from getting to the highlights). Therefore, you compress the tonal difference between the brightest and the darkest, but at the expense of the highlights only. As for bringing out shadow detail; shadows are developed fully very quickly so you can't get more shadow by doing stand. This is only accomplished by lowering your effective film speed; called the EI.

 

[zauhar]

I started using stand developing, and have been happy with 3.5 ml of rodinal concentrate per 36-exp roll, regardless of the total volume (that's actually lower ratio than 1:100). Agitate for first 30 sec, let stand for about a half hour, agitate 30 sec again, and leave for another half hour. I picked that up somewhere (maybe on RFF), and it works beautifully.

Randy

 

[jett]

Yes, inconsistent, uneven, and with 35mm especially streaking, but this is up to you (some say that using a plastic reel and tank makes thing worst, this may be true). Many people swear by it, but I also like other developers better than Rodinal for stand.

On your second question, stand development is really for one specific type of tonal scene. (But now, especially with roll film users, they use it as a general development technique. So I'm not sure what they are trying to get from it.) It is actually for scenes that have a very large difference between the darkest and the brightest parts of the scene. The exhaustion that you speak of only takes place in the highlighted areas (this is from developer exhaustion by the amount of developer available and lack of agitation which keeps fresh developer from getting to the highlights). Therefore, you compress the tonal difference between the brightest and the darkest, but at the expense of the highlights only. As for bringing out shadow detail; shadows are developed fully very quickly so you can't get more shadow by doing stand. This is only accomplished by lowering your effective film speed; called the EI.

Thanks! I was actually looking interested in using stand development for bringing out shadow detail for pushed film, but it sounds like I just need more exposure, a new developer, or faster film. But I'll give it a shot anyways...

 

[d_ross]

Ive only ever stand developed 4x5 film, as Charjohncarter says for high contrast light, in Rodinal 1/100, I process 6 sheets at a time using 22ml of concentrate. the results have always been great. Like randy I give it a bit of agitation in the first 30 sec's and one inversion at 30 minutes. I have processed sheets with varying amounts of over and underexposure together and for some reason they have all looked fine, however never more than a stop either way.

 

[charjohncarter]

Thanks! I was actually looking interested in using stand development for bringing out shadow detail for pushed film, but it sounds like I just need more exposure, a new developer, or faster film. But I'll give it a shot anyways...

Give it a try, and then when you find that it has zero effect on shadow detail start to reduce your film speed (EI). Meter for the shadows and put them at Zone III or IV.

When using Rodinal or HC-110 you will lose film (EI) speed. This means that you will have to rate your film at a lower number than say if you used D-76 or Tmax developer. The developers sometimes are rated by shadow detail; even Kodak did this (of course this is wrong, it just means: as rated by the manufacturer; shadow detail will be less with this developer, UNLESS you lower the EI). But as some developers gain film speed and some lose film speed you have to think about what is happening. Learn a little about the H-D curve of various developers. All you are really doing when it comes to shadow detail is moving the Zone III or Zone IV further up (or down if you want less shadow detail) on the H-D curve when you reduce film speed (or raise it). So a developer like Rodinal (which I like) and HC-110 lose film speed and to compensate or balance this you have to reduce your EI to achieve YOUR level of shadow detail.