Landberg
Well-known
Will the fix damage the negatives if i fix to long?
Starter kit for film developing help?
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shiro_kuro
Charles Bowen
For times ...
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
This also is a good read
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/guerilla.html
http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
This also is a good read
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/guerilla.html
Scrambler
Well-known
You test your fix times by popping some of the trimmed leader in fixer and time until it clears. Do this in a film canister or similar. This also lets you recycle your fixer:just test again. Fixer won't destroy your developed images.
Landberg
Well-known
Thank you! So if the best time is 5 minutes and i leave it in for 10 it will make no difference?
Peter_Jones
Well-known
Just fix the film for double the time it takes for the bit of leader to clear. I've left film in fixer for up to 15 mins (when 5 would do the job) when concentrating on the dev of another film for instance. Not sure how leaving it for longer e.g. hours would affect the film...
Landberg
Well-known
Thanks! This is gonna be fun!
leicapixie
Well-known
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137356
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137356
I use Double, the Clearing times of a piece of same film-leader.
Do not overfix! It causes bleaching of some tones.
The negative may look OK.
It may not print as well as normally fixed one..
I dry in bathroom, after steaming it a bit!
Negatives dry flatter.I still press them a few days.
Some films curl more than others.
Kentmere dies FLAT. The grain bothers me, somewhat.
I like film's grain and grungy look. So ask?
Stay with one film and one developer.
Keep notes as i said before.
Go get 'em tiger!😀
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137356
I use Double, the Clearing times of a piece of same film-leader.
Do not overfix! It causes bleaching of some tones.
The negative may look OK.
It may not print as well as normally fixed one..
I dry in bathroom, after steaming it a bit!
Negatives dry flatter.I still press them a few days.
Some films curl more than others.
Kentmere dies FLAT. The grain bothers me, somewhat.
I like film's grain and grungy look. So ask?
Stay with one film and one developer.
Keep notes as i said before.
Go get 'em tiger!😀
Gregoyle
Well-known
I do the above, but actually double the time.
Landberg
Well-known
So when the film is in the fix i can open the tank? How long does it have stay in the fix before i can open the tank?
Andrea Taurisano
il cimento
After 5 mintues in the fix you can open the tank and wash the film. if the fix is more diluted or has been used before you may have to increase fix time (follow the guidelines given by the fixer manifacturer and written on the bottle and you'll be safe). You have no actual need to open the tank before the fix is over.
JohnTF
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Long post, but I have lots of experience with these tanks, etc.
Long post, but I have lots of experience with these tanks, etc.
Have used Paterson tanks for 50 years, going back to used Major One Model days, basically they have used reels that interchange for the last two or three models.
I have kept everything clean with hot water, clean as you go, and put your equipment in a sink strainer where it can drain and dry.
I had problems with wetting agents, switched to distilled water for mixing chemistry, and for final rinse. I have some very very soft photo sponges made in Sweden, and have hoarded enough for me-- if you find them, you are a lucky man. They are about 3cm square by 20cm long? I went back and bought the entire stock from the store.
There are several basic fixes for film, the dilution may be a bit lower for film, but generally relative to your efforts, chemistry is not expensive. I prefer the liquid fixes, which are usually rapid fixes-- (Ammonium Thiosulphate, not sodium?) and I like a hardener for films- which may need to be added, IMO, or the emulsion may be so soft as to be easily damaged while it is wet. You generally do not want hardener when you print, and you want a higher concentration, two baths, etc. , again for printing paper--
I too toss a film leader in the fix while I am developing the film, if it does not clear quickly, you really need new fix, you can milk the life of old fix by using longer times, but, I would do so only in emergency. If your film is not fixed properly, you can refix later, and I quite normally pull the top on the tank after a minute or so in fresh fix-- you can more easily agitate-- and if the film is not clearing quickly, the fix is saturated.
I use a water rinse between dev and fix, no need to dump high pH developer in to low pH fix when you can simply rinse it away. Acid Stop for film I find not necessary.
Everyone probably does things a bit differently. I use lab ware to get the chemistry ready for use as well so I see the volumes are right.
I am surprised this tank is still being made, you can often get them for almost nothing if you find someone at a camera show who had darkroom equipment. I always keep spare tanks and reels, I store the reels when dry inside the tanks, or in ziploc-- you generally want to keep stuff dust free. $5 is the going price for used tanks. I do not use soap to wash them up, there is nothing in photo chemistry that requires soap to clean, I have heard toilet bowl cleaner is good for stains on equipment, but am lucky if I can find enough for the intended purpose around the house. Color chemistry is different, and you really want to keep stuff very very clean and silver deposit free--
There should be a wash attachment still available, it plugs in to the top of the tank with or without the lid on and forces water from the bottom up (fix is heavier than water), and efficiently washes film quickly.
I have several of the last version of these tanks, one takes five or so rolls of film.
Sometimes one particular reel gives me a pain in the darkroom while loading, and I just take one of the spares stacked up rather than fight with the one in my hand. How you trim the end of the film may affect your loading skills.
Once you buy your new tank, am sure a ton of them will start appearing everywhere for almost nothing-- snap them up-- it is a good system to use, they spent many years on the designs.
Do not slam the tank down to budge away probably imaginary bubbles on the film, the tank will crack, possibly along the molding seams. Keep the tank in a tray while processing and agitating, any runover, spills, will be contained. Spilled chemistry drys up and contributes to the overall dust in the darkroom--
You will find the developer you like, I stopped using Rodinal for 35mm, used a lot of D 76 for many many years, or its brothers from a different mother (Ilford, Foma, etc.) 1:1 with water and tossed it, have acquired good thermometers to keep things right with a good large timer.
I came to like Xtol better than D 76, and I too found it odd that the Tmax Developer seemed to be a poor choice for Tmax film-- one thing about D76, the formula is published, if you run out, and you have stock chemicals and a scale, you are still in business. Am sure there are thousands of posts on what developer is best-- I did like Rodinal very much for Medium Format, 6x9 with Agfa APX films for the tonality.
Use Saran wrap brand (it is denser than competition) under the caps of developer bottle caps when you screw them, I used to sell caps, seems they all, even the most expensive, seem to breathe unless you use Saran Wrap as a gasket. Don't lose sleep over the air remaining in the bottle unless excessive, it is 80% Nitrogen regardless.
Rather long and probably TMI--
Feel free to PM or email me, so I don't put another thread to sleep with posts longer than one or two paragraphs. ;-)
Have fun, Regards, John
Long post, but I have lots of experience with these tanks, etc.
Have used Paterson tanks for 50 years, going back to used Major One Model days, basically they have used reels that interchange for the last two or three models.
I have kept everything clean with hot water, clean as you go, and put your equipment in a sink strainer where it can drain and dry.
I had problems with wetting agents, switched to distilled water for mixing chemistry, and for final rinse. I have some very very soft photo sponges made in Sweden, and have hoarded enough for me-- if you find them, you are a lucky man. They are about 3cm square by 20cm long? I went back and bought the entire stock from the store.
There are several basic fixes for film, the dilution may be a bit lower for film, but generally relative to your efforts, chemistry is not expensive. I prefer the liquid fixes, which are usually rapid fixes-- (Ammonium Thiosulphate, not sodium?) and I like a hardener for films- which may need to be added, IMO, or the emulsion may be so soft as to be easily damaged while it is wet. You generally do not want hardener when you print, and you want a higher concentration, two baths, etc. , again for printing paper--
I too toss a film leader in the fix while I am developing the film, if it does not clear quickly, you really need new fix, you can milk the life of old fix by using longer times, but, I would do so only in emergency. If your film is not fixed properly, you can refix later, and I quite normally pull the top on the tank after a minute or so in fresh fix-- you can more easily agitate-- and if the film is not clearing quickly, the fix is saturated.
I use a water rinse between dev and fix, no need to dump high pH developer in to low pH fix when you can simply rinse it away. Acid Stop for film I find not necessary.
Everyone probably does things a bit differently. I use lab ware to get the chemistry ready for use as well so I see the volumes are right.
I am surprised this tank is still being made, you can often get them for almost nothing if you find someone at a camera show who had darkroom equipment. I always keep spare tanks and reels, I store the reels when dry inside the tanks, or in ziploc-- you generally want to keep stuff dust free. $5 is the going price for used tanks. I do not use soap to wash them up, there is nothing in photo chemistry that requires soap to clean, I have heard toilet bowl cleaner is good for stains on equipment, but am lucky if I can find enough for the intended purpose around the house. Color chemistry is different, and you really want to keep stuff very very clean and silver deposit free--
There should be a wash attachment still available, it plugs in to the top of the tank with or without the lid on and forces water from the bottom up (fix is heavier than water), and efficiently washes film quickly.
I have several of the last version of these tanks, one takes five or so rolls of film.
Sometimes one particular reel gives me a pain in the darkroom while loading, and I just take one of the spares stacked up rather than fight with the one in my hand. How you trim the end of the film may affect your loading skills.
Once you buy your new tank, am sure a ton of them will start appearing everywhere for almost nothing-- snap them up-- it is a good system to use, they spent many years on the designs.
Do not slam the tank down to budge away probably imaginary bubbles on the film, the tank will crack, possibly along the molding seams. Keep the tank in a tray while processing and agitating, any runover, spills, will be contained. Spilled chemistry drys up and contributes to the overall dust in the darkroom--
You will find the developer you like, I stopped using Rodinal for 35mm, used a lot of D 76 for many many years, or its brothers from a different mother (Ilford, Foma, etc.) 1:1 with water and tossed it, have acquired good thermometers to keep things right with a good large timer.
I came to like Xtol better than D 76, and I too found it odd that the Tmax Developer seemed to be a poor choice for Tmax film-- one thing about D76, the formula is published, if you run out, and you have stock chemicals and a scale, you are still in business. Am sure there are thousands of posts on what developer is best-- I did like Rodinal very much for Medium Format, 6x9 with Agfa APX films for the tonality.
Use Saran wrap brand (it is denser than competition) under the caps of developer bottle caps when you screw them, I used to sell caps, seems they all, even the most expensive, seem to breathe unless you use Saran Wrap as a gasket. Don't lose sleep over the air remaining in the bottle unless excessive, it is 80% Nitrogen regardless.
Rather long and probably TMI--
Feel free to PM or email me, so I don't put another thread to sleep with posts longer than one or two paragraphs. ;-)
Have fun, Regards, John
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The longer you leave film in fixer, the more thoroughly the fixing agent penetrates the emulsion and the harder it is to remove afterwards. Ultimately, emulsions left with too much fixer in them fade as the fixer dissolves the silver grains.
If you leave film in fixer for hours unattended, the fixer will likely just dissolve most of the silver grains leaving you a blank film.
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Seems an appropriate place to post this short film developing recipe that I wrote up recently. I had the opportunity to teach a friend how to process his film just a few weekends ago and wrote this to help him remember and get sorted. His (and my) negatives came out great, as I expected.
=====
Negative Processing Equipment:
Chemistry
Information
My Process:
G
=====
Negative Processing Equipment:
- Graduated pitcher 2L capacity
- Graduated cylinder 600 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Graduated cylinder 100 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Graduated cylinder 45 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Dial type darkroom thermometer
- Two-reel daylight developing tank (Paterson)
- dark changing bag or film light tent
- Timer (GraLab) :: range up to 1hour in minutes/seconds resolution
- plastic mixing sticks
- clothes pins gizmos to grab ends of film for hanging and drying
- Graduated cylinder 600 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Graduated cylinder 100 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Graduated cylinder 45 cc/ml (Paterson)
- Dial type darkroom thermometer
- Two-reel daylight developing tank (Paterson)
- dark changing bag or film light tent
- Timer (GraLab) :: range up to 1hour in minutes/seconds resolution
- plastic mixing sticks
- clothes pins gizmos to grab ends of film for hanging and drying
Chemistry
- Developer (Kodak HC-110 liquid concentrate, or other developer to taste)
- Fixer (non-hardening rapid fixer)
- Wetting agent (Kodak Photo-Flo or other)
- Fixer (non-hardening rapid fixer)
- Wetting agent (Kodak Photo-Flo or other)
Information
- data sheet for developer chemistry
- data sheet for fixer chemistry
- "Massive Developing Chart" http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
- data sheet for fixer chemistry
- "Massive Developing Chart" http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php
My Process:
- Fill graduated pitcher with fresh water and let stand overnight to achieve room temperature
- Measure water temperature when starting process
- Look up developer dilution, time and temperature for films to be processed.
- Mix working solution of developer
- Add 20% to chart spec plus a minute to developing time from chart
- Load developing tank reels with film to process.
- Pour in water as presoak. Allow soak with light agitation and rap*tank for 30-60 seconds. Pour out.
- Pour in developer gently. Agitate gently for 30 seconds, rapping tank once or twice to dislodge any bubbles. Agitate very gently for 5 seconds every 2 minutes until developing time is up. Pour out developer. *
- Pour in water gently as stop. Pour out 30 seconds later.
- Pour in fixer gently. Agitate for 30 seconds, rapping tank once or twice. Fix for 7-10 minutes or whatever fixer instructions specify. Pour out fixer. **
- Wash film: Remove top and light trap from developing tank. With modest flow from tap water running at room temperature, fill and empty tank 10 or more times. Time this so that the flow rate takes about 7-10 minutes. Be sure to keep the water at about room temperature, use the thermometer if in doubt ... too cold can damage the emulsion by shrinking it, too hot can damage it by over-softening.
- Pour in wetting agent prepped water for quick soak. (One small drop of clear liquid soap in a quart of water or the appropriate concentration of a wetting agent... very weak concentration!) Pour out.
- Take film out of reels and hang for drying. Wet hands and use two fingers as squeegee to drain excess water off film. Film is at its most fragile and most susceptible to pick up dirt and scratches right after development when the emulsion is soft and wet. Be gentle, keep your hands very clean, handle by the edges.
=====- Measure water temperature when starting process
- Look up developer dilution, time and temperature for films to be processed.
- Mix working solution of developer
- Add 20% to chart spec plus a minute to developing time from chart
- Load developing tank reels with film to process.
- Pour in water as presoak. Allow soak with light agitation and rap*tank for 30-60 seconds. Pour out.
- Pour in developer gently. Agitate gently for 30 seconds, rapping tank once or twice to dislodge any bubbles. Agitate very gently for 5 seconds every 2 minutes until developing time is up. Pour out developer. *
- Pour in water gently as stop. Pour out 30 seconds later.
- Pour in fixer gently. Agitate for 30 seconds, rapping tank once or twice. Fix for 7-10 minutes or whatever fixer instructions specify. Pour out fixer. **
- Wash film: Remove top and light trap from developing tank. With modest flow from tap water running at room temperature, fill and empty tank 10 or more times. Time this so that the flow rate takes about 7-10 minutes. Be sure to keep the water at about room temperature, use the thermometer if in doubt ... too cold can damage the emulsion by shrinking it, too hot can damage it by over-softening.
- Pour in wetting agent prepped water for quick soak. (One small drop of clear liquid soap in a quart of water or the appropriate concentration of a wetting agent... very weak concentration!) Pour out.
- Take film out of reels and hang for drying. Wet hands and use two fingers as squeegee to drain excess water off film. Film is at its most fragile and most susceptible to pick up dirt and scratches right after development when the emulsion is soft and wet. Be gentle, keep your hands very clean, handle by the edges.
G
Landberg
Well-known
Thanks for som great tips! I will return after my first developing!😉
Photo_Smith
Well-known
That's a little alarmist and not exactly true. Given the correct fixing time plus up to 200% no sensometric differences occur.
With normal fixation with thiosulphate silver halides form soluble argentothiosulphate complexes, this happens in the early stages of fixation.
Within a short period of time the halide content of the silver (normally bromide) and diffuses into the solution, the exposed silver isn't 'eaten away' and good washing with remove any unwanted complex ions.
Although technically you can over fix resulting in a bleaching effect that lowers density, this doesn't normally occur for several hours so in practice fix times of 2-5 times the clearing time followed by thorough washing are fine.
BTW if you leave any emulsion in plain distilled water for hours it will become clear, not because it has been 'eaten away' but simply it will detach from the base. Before this happens you can move it around with your finger distorting it–with most modern films this takes many hours.
To the OP just follow the 2x clearing unless you use TMax films which can use a little more
Bob Michaels
nobody special
suggestion from a few decades of developing film: before you buy any hardware that is photo specific, take a tour through the houseware / kitchen department of your local discount store.
a bag of wooden clothespins (32 for $1-) work just as well as photo specific weighted stainless steel clips.
a $5- electronic kitchen timer keeps time just as well as a $125 Gralab photo timer.
Some large cheap kitchen measuring cups measure as well as the Kodak or Paterson ones at 20X the price.
A large stainless spoon stirs just as well as a Kodak stirring rod.
The list goes on and on. Just use your imagination.
Lastly, developing film is not rocket science. It is hard to mess it up. Consistency is good but uber precision has never been necessary. Remember this is a skill they used to teach in Junior High School back a generation ago when kids were not as smart as they are now.
a bag of wooden clothespins (32 for $1-) work just as well as photo specific weighted stainless steel clips.
a $5- electronic kitchen timer keeps time just as well as a $125 Gralab photo timer.
Some large cheap kitchen measuring cups measure as well as the Kodak or Paterson ones at 20X the price.
A large stainless spoon stirs just as well as a Kodak stirring rod.
The list goes on and on. Just use your imagination.
Lastly, developing film is not rocket science. It is hard to mess it up. Consistency is good but uber precision has never been necessary. Remember this is a skill they used to teach in Junior High School back a generation ago when kids were not as smart as they are now.
JohnTF
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I use a mix of items, and it's funny how you find certain items you just find to be better than others.
I really should have stocked up on the old Kodak wooden film clips -- idealized clothes pins-- and they were $.05-- and when I find good old stainless clips-- well, it may have taken years-- but I have favorites-- all seem to have been made long ago, or in the Czech Republic-- serious workmanship -- I had interesting luggage coming back.
Never used a salad spinner on film reels-- yet--
If you can order from a lab supply house, I prefer flasks and beakers -- actually quite reasonable as well.
Keep an open mind, but I sometimes see boxes of very good used equipment left, or tossed if not sold at camera shows.
I know Igor and I have donated lots to schools , clubs and students.
And, my first safelights were Christmas lights.
j
Landberg
Well-known
JohnTF
Veteran
- Local time
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- Joined
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If you find a large photo timer, it will probably be $5-$25 used, you easily see it from a distance, two of mine are hanging up-- easy to set, large face, -- you will come to the point where you settle on what you want to make the experience the most pleasant, and convenient. I believe my first film darkroom cost me $4, fR tank, Tri Chem pack with universal MQ developer, and a couple of Ansco film clips-- still have the film clips-- odd tank, you could load one roll of 620 on the inside of the reel, and another on the outside, effectively doing two rolls at a time-- though it had a nasty habit of punching a hole in a thumb loading the first.
Paterson is much better.
Regards, John
Paterson is much better.
Regards, John
Landberg
Well-known
The kit was out of stock so i changed the order to this
PATERSON FX-39 developer
T-MAX FIXER
TETENAL MIRASOL 2000
+ necessary tanks and stuff.
I could not find the developing times for Tmax 400 and the paterson fx-39, any tips?
PATERSON FX-39 developer
T-MAX FIXER
TETENAL MIRASOL 2000
+ necessary tanks and stuff.
I could not find the developing times for Tmax 400 and the paterson fx-39, any tips?
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