Starting out in film developing

[ChrisCummins]

So my new year's resolution is to start developing my own film. I acquired a Paterson 4 and Model II Universal Tank, 600ml measuring cylinder, mechanical timer and a bag of film clips off my Grandad to start me out, which leaves chemicals on my shopping list. So, how does this combination sound for starting out in film processing?

- Xtol
- Kodak Indicator Stop Bath
- Ilford Rapid Fixer
- Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent

I have about a dozen rolls of Tri-X and HP5+ to develop, but after that I plan on switching to Rollei RPX 400, hence the choice of Xtol, as it seems to be recommended for the RPX film.

Also, can you mix the chemicals required per develop, or do you have to mix up a larger quantity and store it in bottles? Admittedly I know nothing about film developing except what I have read.

I've been practicing loading film into the tanks. Doesn't seem to hard, but of course it'll all go tits up when I try it for real 😛 If anyone has any tips for someone starting out in film developing, I'd be keen to hear them. Thanks

All the best,
Chris

 

[mathomas]

I've been doing my own for about 9 months now. I get by with a developer, water stop bath, Rapid Fix, and Ilford-style final water wash. I use distilled water throughout (I buy it in gallons at the grocery).

For developers, I use Diafine and Rodinal (actually Adonal, but it's identical). I haven't tried Xtol, but it's obviously very popular.

I think Diafine was really good for me as a beginner, because it's very hard to mess up your negs with it. I have been enjoying Rodinal stand because it's so low effort (but you do have to be around when the hour is up 🙂).

Mixing the chems has everything to do with the formula. Diafine is pre-mixed and keeps forever (you reuse it, too). Rodinal is one-shot, and liquid, so very easy to mix. Xtol might be one that you have to mix up front (easy to look up). Add chemical bottles to your shopping list, if indeed you will need to store chems.

Have you been loading your film into the reel/tank with your eyes closed? That's pretty key. A tip that has helped me a lot is to use a dark bathroom (or any room really) rather than a changing bag to get your film on the reel and into the daylight tank. I had some really frustrating experiences with a changing bag. Since moving the process to our basement bathroom, it's been so much easier and every load goes smoothly, even on the "stickier" films.

Best of luck. I really enjoy the process, as I feel more involved in the final image than with digital. Of course, if you screw up your negs it's usually a total loss. Oh well, live and learn. It's only photos 🙂.

 

[Fawley]

Your intial list of chemistry is fine, but if it were me I would swap out the Xtol for the 1 liter packs of D76 (powder) or HC-110(liquid), both Kodak. I use Xtol and so do many others, but it just lacks that crispness of grain that you may want to see. Also, it comes in those huge packs. Do not try to mix partial packages of powder developer. As for stop, my preference would be for Ilford Ilfostop. As I recall, Kodak Indicator kind of stinks.

You will hear many different opinions about use of a chemical stop, as opposed to water. My preference is for a stop bath because I like to keep my fixer in good shape. Fixing is one of the most important aspects of film processing and fixer is rapidly degraded by develper carry through. Ilfstop is much cheaper than Rapid Fix, so change the stop frequently. Do not overfix. The longer the fixing time, the harder it is to wash the fixer products from the film.

 

[ChrisCummins]

Thanks for the quick replies. I certainly know enough about film developing to know that there are no certainties in film developing! Ok so I chuck a 5ltr storage bottle onto the list to put the developer in. Can I mix it in the container or will I need to mix it in something else before decanting it in? I have also seen lots of accordion-style compressible bottles, is trapped air a major problem with storing developer?

Mike, what is the 'Ilford-style' was you refer to? And I agree about the dark bathroom. I've been reading a lot about changing bag horror stories, so will try blacking out the bathroom with towels instead.

Fawley, your justification for stop bath seems very sensible. I think I will probably stick with Xtol as developer, purely because it's the only one to give decent results with the film I plan on using, according to people's experiences (all very subjective, but we'll see).

On another note, how important is a film squeegee? Seems like a sensible item but just adds another £10 to the shopping list...

Regards
Chris

 

[steelydam]

Might want to add a wetting agent at the very end, to ensure no water spots end up on your film. Kodak Photo-Flo does nicely and is cheap. One bottle can last years.

In my opinion, no squeegee is necessary. I used to use a photo sponge but have stopped and I notice no difference.

 

[Haigh]

I also have been using a stop bath for as long as I can remember. I use a very diluted wetting agent at the start for a short time 30sec to 45 secs before development.

Developer temperature and agitation should be the same for each roll.

 

[Vics]

Me, I like D76 1:1. I've been using it for 40 years, and my negs just keep getting better. It's a real workhorse, especially with Tri-X!
Enjoy the darkroom!

 

[Bingley]

I pretty much agree w/ Mike. I'd recommend starting w/ Diafine or Rodinal or HC 110. Or D76, although I've never used it. You don't need a separate stop bath; just use cold tap water and fill the tank and dump three times.

The Ilford rinse method (which I also use): 1) fill the tank w/ water, do five inversions, and dump; 2) fill the tank w/ water, do ten inversions, and dump; 3) fill the tank w/ water, do 20 inversions, and dump. The tap water in my neck of the woods is pretty hard (lots of minerals), so I use distilled water for the final rinse and also do a final soak in distilled water w/ a wetting agent (e.g., photoflo), to avoid water spots.

Good luck!!

 

[mrb]

To this good advice I'd add this: you might want to shoot and develop a test roll or two, and see if your technique works, before developing anything important. Good luck!

 

[Fawley]

Ok so I chuck a 5ltr storage bottle onto the list to put the developer in. Can I mix it in the container or will I need to mix it in something else before decanting it in? I have also seen lots of accordion-style compressible bottles, is trapped air a major problem with storing developer?

Air is the most major problem in storing developer. Five liters of Xtol can process an awful lot of film, so it might take you a while to use up. The best storage solution is to use multiple bottles, that way not all of your developer is exposed to air every time you use it. If you don't want to buy 5 bottles (I don't, they're expensive) scrounge some; glass is the best, some plastics apparently pass oxygen. With respect to mixing; stirring works the best, like the directions say. Get yourself a bucket.

Another controversial item is whether or not to use distilled water. In most locations tap water is probably fine. I use distilled water, then I know its fine. A gallon of it at my local grocery store costs about a dollar and a half My concern is longevity of the developer more than anything else. A bottle of some tap waters kept in a container for 6 months to a year can get kind of gungy.

As long as you are using Xtol, try shooting some pushed film. Xtol is great for developing film pushed to 800, 1600 or even 3200.

 

[mathomas]

Bingley provided the Ilford wash protocol. I actually do 10 then 20 then 30 inversions, but whatever works 🙂. If I'm feeling rich, I use distilled water throughout the wash. The nice thing about that is it's already room temp (I dev at basement room temp). If I'm feeling poor (in other words, if I'm running low on distilled water), then I fill a beaker with a thermometer in it with tap water, and match the room temp. After the three cycles, I then do one more very gentle 10 inversion cycle in distilled water with 2 drops of LFN. All this is with a 300ml tank.

Previously I should have mentioned that Diafine is a compensating developer and imparts a "speed boost" to film. Most film gains at least a stop in EI, Tri-X gains more.

For Diafine, I shoot Tri-X at EI 1250, Plus-X at 400, Delta 100 at 160. Etc.

You may find this boost useful or annoying depending on the circumstances. That's why I added Rodinal to my "quiver", so I can choose how I'm going to go WRT EI.

Here's a frame from a recent roll of 135 Tri-X @ 1250 in Diafine (shot with a Contax RX):

 

[ChrisCummins]

Air is the most major problem in storing developer. Five liters of Xtol can process an awful lot of film, so it might take you a while to use up.

Is that the reasoning behind collapsable bottles like these?
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/851/ap-chemical-storage-bottle-3396z-2-litres

I've been reading about Diafine, and sure enough it does sound very interesting - but curiously I can't seem to find anywhere (online) that stocks it in the UK?

The tap water at home is very soft - but at university, I've no idea. I'm guessing it's pretty hard though, half the time it comes out of the taps cloudy! I'll look for somewhere to get distilled water from then. Thanks for all the great tips guys. 🙂

 

[rodneyAB]

I'd not again spend on collapsible plastic bottles. just not good for large volumes XTOL.
I'd mix XTOL in a big bucket, then pour into five liter plastic bottles, glass would be better. I have heard that a large volume tank with spigot and a FLOATING top is good for XTOL, might be pricey.
I use D76, Rodinal now, but Xtol is good too. I have not used Ilford developers
I no longer use Kodak FIXER, has hardening agent, and why you need the HCA, now I'm useing ILFORD rapid fix and therefore no need for Kodak HCA...as I understand it
Check out the Ilford site.

 

[nimcod]

uk source is ag-photographic in the "specialist" b&w dev section. silverprint might still stock it but id give them a call to check.

 

[venchka]

Xtol is fine if stored in air free container. I use Wine In A Box bladders. 13 1/2 months is my longest time and the Xtol worked fine. That said, Rodinal is the low volume user, long shelf life champ. Darn good developer too. 1:25, 1:50, 1:100. It's all good.
Save your money for film. Stop bath not needed. Hypo clearing agent not needed. Photo-Flo or similar is needed, mixed at 1/4 to 1/2 the bottle instructions. I mix Photo-Flo at 2-3 ml per liter instead of 1:200 like the bottle says. Proper negative filing sleeves ARE required.

 

[ornate_wrasse]

Sounds like you've been given lots of good advice for the chemicals, therefore I won't address that.

I have found that sometimes things don't quite go your way when you're in the darkroom trying to load film into the tank. You get stuck because of some snafu, you're in the dark and need to open the door so you can complete the film loading process. What do you do?

One time I brought what I thought was the correct tank into the changing room along with my film. I had several rolls of film to develop and then realized that I had the wrong tank and had to go out of the light-tight room to get a different one. I was in a panic not knowing what to do but not wanting to expose the film to light and ruin my film. I finally put all of the rolls of film into the tank without being on a reel (which wouldn't have fit anyway) and put on thetank cover. My film was then safe until I went out and retrieved the correct tank. In this situation, there was no changing bag but instead a separate room which was light tight and which was used to load film into tanks.

Hopefully you won't experience a snafu such as this but, just in case you do, there is a solution.

Of course, there may also be a snafu from which you can't recover 😡 I once brought into the changing room some roll film. In the dark, the film accidentally fell down onto the floor. Try as I might in the dark, I couldn't locate the film. It had rolled behind some boxes which were on the floor. I finally gave up looking for it and chalked it up to experience 🙁 Yes, I lost a roll of film but am now careful to make sure it doesn't happen again.

My two cents,

Ellen

 

[steelydam]

Venchka's wine in a box bladders sound like a great idea. I too have combined my loves of photography and beverages: for long tern storage of developer I use those beer bottles made by Fischer d' Alcace/Grolsch/etc. that have a metal hinge/ceramic cap. I fill them until just about to overflow and store them in the dark. I have a couple differnt sizes and usually do several rolls at one time so there isn't enough leftover to keep, especially with using the 12 oz bottles. With these, my XTOL has worked well several months past its advertised expiration date, same with my Dektol.

 

[ChrisCummins]

Thanks so much for all the responses, some really great information here! 🙂

It'll be Jan 4th before the online stores reopen and I can place my order, so I've been refining my shopping list. Between AG-Photographic and Firstcall Photographic, I've got this:

1 Gal Diafine - £32.50
500ml Ilford Rapid Fixer - £6.95
470ml Kodak Photo-Flo - £6.49
Paterson 9" B&W Thermometer - £12.49
5x 1LTR Glass Bottles - £23.20
470ml Kodak Indicator Stop Bath - £8.49

Also 6 rolls of 135 Rollei RPX 400 which I intend to check out as it is by far the cheapest film out there.

Now that is not a cheap shopping list. Particularly expensive is the Diafine (although if it lasts as long as I've heard then that could be fine) and the glass bottles, so I'm going to look for an alternative to buying new bottles. The wine bladder does seem like a novel and sensible solution. I'll get drinking! 🙂 How do you clean it out to ensure protection from impurities?

All the best,
Chris

 

[nimcod]

I always balk at my yearly diafine order, but then looking back at 300 ish rolls over the last year it breaks down to a respectable outlay.

I just use 5 litre water containers and it works out just fine, lasts a year or longer sometimes. may not be the best way but i find it works fine for me.

 

[robbeiflex]

...Now that is not a cheap shopping list...

True, but when you divide it out over many, many rolls, you'll be developing for cents / pence per roll. Since I started developing at home I no longer worry about the cost per frame.

A lot of good advice here. Not sure if anyone mentioned Ilford's instructions on developing your first roll which serves as a good checklist and reference, in case not they're here:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

Also, I have been experimenting with XTOl and RPX400. My flickr (in my signature) has a set with various films in XTOL and I started a thread on RPX400 on RFF:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98543

I would be happy to see your results added to that thread in a few days. 😉

Cheers,
Rob