Starting out in film developing

[DNG]

Xtol is fine if stored in air free container. I use Wine In A Box bladders. 13 1/2 months is my longest time and the Xtol worked fine. That said, Rodinal is the low volume user, long shelf life champ. Darn good developer too. 1:25, 1:50, 1:100. It's all good.
Save your money for film. Stop bath not needed. Hypo clearing agent not needed. Photo-Flo or similar is needed, mixed at 1/4 to 1/2 the bottle instructions. I mix Photo-Flo at 2-3 ml per liter instead of 1:200 like the bottle says. Proper negative filing sleeves ARE required.

For high dilutions... you can use a child's hollow medicine spoon that has the needed small of 1ml markings for PhotoFlo and Rodinal

If you decide to use Xtol, You must use a de-mineralized water you can buy, or get a charcoal filter water purifier for your tap... And use this type water for everything, including your wash at the end. Most tap water has micro particles that will stick to the emulsion and look like really tiny black specks on the film after you scan them. If you wet print.. they will be really tiny white specks.

I find Plus-X, Fuji Acros as old school films, and Delta 50/100/400 as newer films, do really well in Xtol.
You may want to start with Xtol at 1:1 as per Kodak Temp sheet... BUT, expose your film at box speed or 1/3 over (slower ISO) and don't compensate for 1/3 over exposure. This will keep the contrast at a good level without being a tad thin.

On loading your reel... Easy man.... Rewind and leave a part of the leader out, then you can trim it and pre-load the leader in daylight, about 1/3 around the spool. Or just past the ball barrings, then go dark and finish up.... I do it this way because I am a spaz :bang: when it comes to fine motor control.

Fun fun fun.....

Do you have an Android phone? Get the FREE "Darkroom Timer" from the Android Market..
There is a similar app for the iPhone also.. they both have custom steps for the whole develop process. The iPhone app "the massive dev chart" works by plugging in your film/developer.
The Android App has a few installed, but, you build your list by adding each step at a time, and saving it.. you can always tweak it as needed for temps, Times, agitation etc..

 

[ChrisCummins]

Hey Rob thanks for the Ilford link, and yes it's your thread I've been referring to (and that initially put me onto Xtol), it's very informative and I hope to be able to contribute something to that in the near future!

As an off-topic note, I am hoping to buy the RPX on 30mtr reels and load them up myself, which is something I know very little about atm.

I'm sure there must must must be a cheaper way of getting 1 ltrs glass bottles then buying specially designed ones at extortionate prices. The shop down the bottom of my road sells cider in 2.5ltr glass bottles, it's a shame they don't do a smaller version!

I will look into wine bladders, but how do I clean them/top them up?

Thanks for all the info DNG. I think I will try Diafine as it does seem almost too-good-to-be-true, and that film pre-loading method definitely seems the most reliable!

Happy new year everyone!
Chris

 

[ChrisCummins]

Two further quick questions about Diafine:

- It says on the AG-Photographic website that it is enough to make 1 US Gallon. Does that mean 4 ltrs total (2ltrs of solution A, 2ltrs solution B) or is that 8 ltrs total? (4ltrs of each?)

- Mike you mentioned that you expose Tri-X at 1250 EI when developing in Diafine. I have about a dozen rolls of Tri-X and Ilford HP5+ both exposed at 400 EI, does that mean that they will completely overexpose if developed for 3 + 3 mins? I read somewhere that one guy develops for 2min in A and 3 min in B when developing Tri-X at 400 EI, does that sound credible?

 

[nathanp]

I'm still a newbie at this so take this with a pinch of salt, but here's what I've been doing..

- I used Rodinal to start with because it keeps for so long and there's no mixing to worry about. I have the little 125ml bottle and bought a syringe on ebay to measure it out.

- I bought the Kodak indicator stop bath, mixed it and kept the working solution in an old 500ml spring water bottle.

- I bought a bottle for the working strength fixer because it seems quite important..

- I tried out Ilford ID-11 (same as D76) for a change and really liked it. I mixed/stored it in a normal 4 pint milk bottle. It was fine but I'm not sure how long it would keep like that. I think I preferred the look of the ID-11 negatives to the Rodinal ones.

Other things - I bought cheap jugs from Wilkinsons for mixing and a measuring cylinder from eBay. I made do with freezer bag clips from Wilkinsons instead of proper film clips and don't use a squeegee.

 

[ChrisCummins]

Right, I put in a couple of orders for all the things [I think] I need, should arrive in about a week.

- Paterson changing bag (i decided to go with the changing bag to be on the safe side but hopefully I will be able to make do without it)
- 1 gal Diafine
- 470ml Indicator Stop Bath
- 1 gal Ilford Rapid fixer
- 470ml Photo Flo
- Paterson B&W Thermometer
- 2x 5ltr plastic containers for the Diafine mixture
- 2x 1ltr glass chemical bottles for the 'working' Diafine mixture
- 6 rolls of Rollei RPX 400 to try out in the Diafine

Can't wait to get started now!

Regards
Chris

 

[Gevan]

Do you have an Android phone? Get the FREE "Darkroom Timer" from the Android Market..
There is a similar app for the iPhone also.. they both have custom steps for the whole develop process. The iPhone app "the massive dev chart" works by plugging in your film/developer.
The Android App has a few installed, but, you build your list by adding each step at a time, and saving it.. you can always tweak it as needed for temps, Times, agitation etc..

There is another application for android (film development database).
Full list processing times and multi step timer for each film+dev+temp.

 

[robbeiflex]

Wicked, thanks for the android app tips!
Rob

 

[DNG]

There is another application for android (film development database).
Full list processing times and multi step timer for each film+dev+temp.

thanks, very cool....
The only is can't do is give you an agitation buzz...
and add the Photo Flo and wash steps..
But, to have the presets already programed for any developer/film combo is really cool.

 

[kyler.]

Hi Chris,
I too am starting out in film developing. Not trying to threadjack here but just wanted to post my shopping cart so that anyone can point out if I missed anything.

Paterson 35mm Tank with Reel (Super System 4)
General Brand 35mm Film Leader Retriever
Delta Stainless Steel Film Clips (Pack of 10)
Yankee Film Squeegee
Photographers' Formulary Micro-Mixer Measuring Syringe 12ml
Kodak Photo-Flo 200 Solution - 16 Oz.
Ilford Rapid Fixer (Liquid,1 Liter)
Ilford Ilfostop Stop Bath (500ml)
General Brand 1-3/4" Stainless Steel Dial Thermometer
Hama PolyPropylene Graduate - 34 oz (1 Liter)
Kodak D-76 Developer (Powder) for Black and White Film
Photographers' Formulary Amber Glass Bottle with Narrow Mouth - 250ml

Wow, it's getting expensive.
Good luck to you Chris!
-Kyle

 

[ChrisCummins]

Unfortunately I don't have an android phone to use those aps with, but I should be ok with a large online stop watch to keep an eye on the time.

Right, I received half of my developing supplies today, including the Kodak Indicator Stop Bath. Now, it says that the solution appears transparent or dark (depending on whether it's exhausted or not) under a yellow safe light. Now, since I don't have one of those, is the 'Indicator' part of it's functionality useless then?

Kyle, your shopping list looks good. Yes, I too was amazed at the expense. I think a lot of people who claim that developing is cheap have forgotten the initial upfront costs involved. Once those are out of the way, then it becomes economical. Two things about your list:

Do you have a dark room? If not, then a changing bag will be necessary. Also, what about storage bottles for things such as the developer? I spent about £20 on dedicated storage bottles. Experiences can vary with people using anything from milk cartons to wine bottles, but I decided not to take the chance and opt for specialised bottles.

I'm looking forward to getting started now! The other half of my order is just waiting on the Diafine to show up, then it's good to go. I've bought myself a much larger (+nicer) lightbox so I won't be faffing around with a hobby 10x8 any more.

Regards
Chris

 

[kyler.]

Thanks Chris,
I do have a small closet-like room that I will be blacking out.
For storage of the developer i got three of the Amger glass bottles listed at the bottom. I read that it is good to keep the developer in glass bottles and that you want to fill them all the way up so there is not extra oxygen. Thats why I got 3 relatively small bottles.
The order's coming tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[ChrisCummins]

Yup that seems like a sensible idea with the small bottles. If you're going to be working with larger quantities of developer than 750ml though you'll need bigger bottles. I've gone for 2x5ltr bottles to store the developer (mixes into 8 ltrs total) and 3x1ltr bottles for stop bath and anything else.

Looks like you'll get a couple of days headstart on developing, keep us posted on how it goes. What film stock are you working with?

 

[kyler.]

It's hard to guess exactly how much storage you'll need without experience.
It sounds like you got a good amount though.
I will be working with Tri-x and trying to focus on just that film for a couple months with D76 1:1 developer.

What do you plan on doing after you develop the prints? Scan or Print?
Hopefully I will eventually do both as I hear printing is the fun part of the darkroom, but right now I neither have a scanner nor an enlarger...
I'm saving up for a scanner though

 

[ChrisCummins]

I'm processing the negatives and then 'digitizing' them as I don't have a proper space for an enlarger. I don't use a scanner. Instead I use a lightbox, a tripod and a DSLR with a good macro lens on it. The negatives are held in place on the lightbox, then the DSLR is mounted above it via the tripod so that it can make a digital exposure of the negative at 1:1 scale. I then invert & adjust the curves with computer software. It's time consuming, but I like the creative freedom it gives me.

If you already have a DSLR, I'd recommend you give this a try, even if you don't have a proper macro lens you can probably get a high enough resolution to do 12x10 prints. I consider a good lightbox an essential piece of kit and so I thought it wise to spend £100 on a decent one rather than £400 on a good scanner which may be obsolete in a few years...

Regards
Chris

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'm processing the negatives and then 'digitizing' them as I don't have a proper space for an enlarger. I don't use a scanner. Instead I use a lightbox, a tripod and a DSLR with a good macro lens on it. The negatives are held in place on the lightbox, then the DSLR is mounted above it via the tripod so that it can make a digital exposure of the negative at 1:1 scale. I then invert & adjust the curves with computer software. It's time consuming, but I like the creative freedom it gives me.

If you already have a DSLR, I'd recommend you give this a try, even if you don't have a proper macro lens you can probably get a high enough resolution to do 12x10 prints. I consider a good lightbox an essential piece of kit and so I thought it wise to spend £100 on a decent one rather than £400 on a good scanner which may be obsolete in a few years...

Regards
Chris

Dear Chris,

Better still, look out for an old Illumitran. And for macro, a good enlarger lens on a bellows is excellent. Your approach still sounds like hard work, though: I scan colour and wet-print B+W. Have you a garage? If so, consider a Nova darkroom tent in one corner.

Cheers,

R.

 

[kyler.]

HI all,
I received a package from B&H today with all my goodies. Im very excited to give it a go.
If you don't mind, I have a question for all you 1:1 D-76 developers.

The packaging says to mix it with 800 ml of 122-131 fahrenhit water until it has dissolved and then to add more water until it reaches a liter, so that would be an additional 200 milliliters. Do you have to keep it hot while your mixing(ie
; keep it under a flame)? Does the extra 200 milliliters of water have to be at the hot temperature or room temp?

And also, just making sure, once you have the 1 liter solution, if one wanted to make that whole thing a 1:1 dillution, you have to add an extra liter of water?

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[Roger Hicks]

HI all,
I received a package from B&H today with all my goodies. Im very excited to give it a go.
If you don't mind, I have a question for all you 1:1 D-76 developers.

The packaging says to mix it with 800 ml of 122-131 fahrenhit water until it has dissolved and then to add more water until it reaches a liter, so that would be an additional 200 milliliters. Do you have to keep it hot while your mixing(ie
; keep it under a flame)? Does the extra 200 milliliters of water have to be at the hot temperature or room temp?

And also, just making sure, once you have the 1 liter solution, if one wanted to make that whole thing a 1:1 dillution, you have to add an extra liter of water?

Thanks,
Kyle

Dear Kyle,

Just chuck in cold water. No problem. The temperature isn't all that critical anyway. Too cold and it takes forever to dissolve; too hot, and you risk hydrolysis of the dev agents. 'Just too hot to stick your fingers in comfortably' is all you need.

Make up the 1:1 as needed, e.g. for a 250 ml tank take 125ml stock and add 125 ml water. It won't last long (maybe 24 hours before it oxidizes), so use it and throw it away.

Cheers,

R.

 

[ibcrewin]

Any new developments? I'm at the edge of my reel here!

 

[ChrisCummins]

I've been pestering AG-Photographic and they've informed me that my Diafine is on it's way over 'from the continent', so it seems they order it in on demand. Their communications have been excellent though.

Firstcall photographic were amazingly quick dispatch (ordered 4:30pm, arrived next morning). They didn't have the 2 glass bottles I asked for so substituted them for 3 plastic bottles and reduced the cost.

Better still, look out for an old Illumitran. And for macro, a good enlarger lens on a bellows is excellent. Your approach still sounds like hard work, though: I scan colour and wet-print B+W. Have you a garage? If so, consider a Nova darkroom tent in one corner.

Some interesting ideas there Roger. I'd never heard of the Illumitran, but know of similar ideas out there. And yes it is hard work, but I actually find the process quite satisfying (if not yet perfected). It operates much in the same way as an enlarger, even if the theory is different (well, I can only guess at that since I have never used an enlarger 🙂 ). I riase the camera up and lay out my film on the lightbox to make a contact print. I then import that into my computer and 'process' the image into a positive using the curves tool. I study that and mark out the 'enlargements' i want to make before fitting the macro lens and going a bit closer. The tricky part is framing the individual shot to just about fill the entire frame. I leave a little border around the outside usually, or sometimes more depending on artistic intention.

The other day I borrowed the negative carriers from one of my grandad's old enlargers (he has three of them in his attic, but I simply don't have the room at the moment!), so I'll try using this to fix the negative in place better on the lightbox.

Regards
Chris

 

[kyler.]

ibcrewin- I recieved all of the stuff and have been just doing a lot of research until monday when I will hopefully blackout the alotted space and attempt my first development.
I will also shortly be getting a scanner so you all can see how the process goes.

Chris- Interesting process and nice shot!
Thanks,
Kyle