Sticky Iris Shutters - Why ????

R

ruben

Guest
I am pist off! truly with the second Canonet 1965 whose shutter doesnt fire. To the first seller of the first Canonet 1965 I already ruined her 100% feedback.

Now, with the second seller, 100% feedback, probably I am going to do the same. In both cases without any previous negotiation.

OK but this belongs to the vendetta evil side of my mind. Now the technical question: why ?

It is one of the most painfull things to see a like-new camera from 40 years ago, so beautifull, and still paralyzed by a sticky shutter.

I think that first of all, if I follow my experience, this shutter illnes is "genetical", i,e, it shows mostly on some models (the famous Olympus RD in which this is chronical) and almost never in other models. Has any of you found a sticky shutter on a Konica Auto S2, for example ? (which btw belong to the same class calendar like the Canonet 1965) Or the Yashica Lynx 14 ?

Regardless of the lens quality and other sides of the camera, it seems that the iris shutters of some brands of fixed lens cameras have passed the test of time much ahead of others. This is a disgrace.

Now, there is a popular prejudice going on the lines that these shutters went sticky due to some litttle dwarf that oiled them in the past. I don't buy this explanation that contradicts the evidence I have found.

There is another explanation, which in case anyone wants to defend, please be kind and DETAIL, that says there is some dirt inside in need to be cleared.
This sounds a little better and doesn't contradict my genetical explanation, on the contrary, it may be logical that some types of fixed lens cameras were designed with faults, prompting them more than other types to gather dirt.

I have said above "this is a disgrace". But it will be a great service to all of us if we could advance our knowledge about what type of disgrace we are in front of.

Thus for example the answer could be: Yes, the sticky shutter problem shows more on certain models that others. Or, No, it is fully circumstancial and each single camera with its own fate (user, dwarf, etc)

Does any of the dwellers here know what is going on ? Not only I am going mad but I am paying 15 - 45 dollaretas per camera and 35 additional hurting dollars to the US mail.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ruben,

Sorry to hear of you bad luck in getting a Canonet. I am not a repair person. The only Canonets I have are two QL III 17's, both ebay purchases. The second worked well on being bought. The first was a total basket case. It was only though the kind expertise of the former active member greyhoundman that it was resusitated. You may remember that before health prevented it, he used to work absolute magic on all sorts of fixed lens rangefinders, but especiallhy Canonets.

For that reason, I presume there is hope for the two you have, especially since you seem to have some ability to work on cameras. But I understand your dismay and frustration. Nobody likes to get bad purchases. When working, the Canonets are fun cameras that provide good photos.

I wish you luck, and look forward to a post from you detailing how you have saved both, and showing photos of the repairs and the results.
 
It really shows the mindset of a nasty, mean-spirited jerk to take pleasure in ruining someone's 100% feedback because he has found a flaw in an ancient, cheaply priced used camera.

These things have to be taken in stride when dealing with antique mechanical items. Very likely the seller didn't know something was wrong. Did you read the descriptions?

Not only that, but you leave the sadistic feedback without communicating with the seller.

This speaks more volumes about you than any of your posts.

What you're probably going to accomplish is getting other Israeli bidders blocked from auctions, and creating even more ill-will because of your infantile actions.

Negative feedbacks badly damage sellers in today's eBay.

Nice guy.
 
Last night I voted in the poll of how many cameras do you have. I had to confess to owning over 50 cameras. I wish my cameras of age 40+ worked but very few do. This includes Exacta's, Praktina's, Praktica's, Retina's and many others. Perhaps this suggests that a working 40 year old camera that has never been serviced is the exception rather than the rule. Joe
 
How to fix your camera-http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/canonetblade.html
Petroleum does have a point, although I think he expresses it a bit strongly. Really, what do you expect from a cheaply made, mass produced, 40 year old camera. If I were to buy a Leica M from that time I would anticipate it needing some work. Stu
Incidently-I had a vintage large format Copal shutter still new in the box that needed a CLA before being serviceable. The person I gave it to sent it to Grimes for repair. That shutter probably was worth as much as 20 Canonets.
 
Last edited:
No matter how ancient or cheaply priced an item is.
If a camera is described as working but its shutter does not work, then it is a fraud that should not be left without action. I don't care who the seller is or how many positive he might have.
If you sell something as working, it better be working. Otherwise just be honest and say, "this camera is so cheaply priced because it's 40 y old and its shutter is stuck, good luck with it".
 
By the way,yes some fixed-lens leaf shutter cameras are more prone to shutter blade sticking than others. At least, as an example no yashica GSN's had it, in my experience with them (they had other problems,of course). Canonets have it often but it's easier to clean them out; minolta hi-matics have it too, but it seems to be more difficult to properly recover them at home.

About canonet ql17's, i have one here that was seriously abused, a huge dent on the top, finder windows bursted out, lens damaged, looks terrible, but it's my ugly beater user camera that i took out to the street in Rio de Janeiro loaded with Kodachrome, without any fear (and despite fo the scared face and advices of the hotel receptionist).

I still have it, it works perfectly.
 
Noplace did you say that the camera was listed as being in working order. If it doesn't work either return it or get it fixed. A lot of people Ebay "Daddy's old film camera" without knowing a thing about it. It's not worth it to them to spend the money to run a roll through it considering what they'll be selling it for. Of course you could always be a real nasty prick and list it on ebay yourself...but you'd have no excuse for not listing the condition.
 
Petroleum V. Nasby said:
It really shows the mindset of a nasty, mean-spirited jerk to take pleasure in ruining someone's 100% feedback because he has found a flaw in an ancient, cheaply priced used camera.

These things have to be taken in stride when dealing with antique mechanical items. Very likely the seller didn't know something was wrong. Did you read the descriptions?

Not only that, but you leave the sadistic feedback without communicating with the seller.

This speaks more volumes about you than any of your posts.

What you're probably going to accomplish is getting other Israeli bidders blocked from auctions, and creating even more ill-will because of your infantile actions.

Negative feedbacks badly damage sellers in today's eBay.

Nice guy.
Click to expand...



Who ever sells clearly unworking cameras cannot continue confusing my fellow buyers with the 100% umbrella.
This is not the guillotine, but consumer solidarity and awareness.

A stucked shutter is not the result of any bump during the trip, and even less when the camera arrives perfectly packed.

I have publicly written about the ruining of the 100% for those selling broken gear, on purpose - so as others fellows here follow suit.

Sellers of broken gear veiled under tricky auctions - out of the race !

Cheers,
Ruben
 
oftheherd said:
Ruben,

Sorry to hear of you bad luck in getting a Canonet. I am not a repair person. The only Canonets I have are two QL III 17's, both ebay purchases. The second worked well on being bought. The first was a total basket case. It was only though the kind expertise of the former active member greyhoundman that it was resusitated. You may remember that before health prevented it, he used to work absolute magic on all sorts of fixed lens rangefinders, but especiallhy Canonets.

............
Click to expand...


Be it said LOUDLY AND CLEAR: I am not talking about the small and later Canonets but the earlier ones of the size like a Konica auto S2.

On the contrary, I have purchased six small canonets along the years and only once I had a problem with the shutter being sticky.

Cheers,
Ruben

Ofteheard: Could you PM me ?
 
Pherdinand said:
No matter how ancient or cheaply priced an item is.
If a camera is described as working but its shutter does not work, then it is a fraud that should not be left without action. I don't care who the seller is or how many positive he might have.
If you sell something as working, it better be working. Otherwise just be honest and say, "this camera is so cheaply priced because it's 40 y old and its shutter is stuck, good luck with it".
Click to expand...

No matter how ancient or cheaply priced an item is.
If a camera is described as working but its shutter does not work, then it is a fraud that should not be left without action. I don't care who the seller is or how many positive he might have.
If you sell something as working, it better be working. Otherwise just be honest and say, "this camera is so cheaply priced because it's 40 y old and its shutter is stuck, good luck with it".

There are camera problems and problems. I never expect a seller to account for shutter speed accuracy, or light metering accuracy.

But a seller that either doesn't know if the shutter fires, or doesn't even check it, must be punished.

He must be punished by all of us, including me, in order to prevent my friend Petroleum from buying from such a seller, a camera with an unworking shutter. But if Petroleum in his turn, doesn't punish irresponsible sellers, who can I expect them stop selling us unfiring shutters?

I think it was the great Valdemar who once said, in other context, something like don't show mercy for the mercyless and brutality towards the human minded.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I weren't able to get clue if Ruben's Canonets were listed as working or not. So I'm asking how much you paid, Ruben? If something crazy like us$50+ then I can understand you. In case description were obscured like "my Dads nice looking camera, used to work perfectly" and you didn't hesitate to ask if it works now, then....just good lesson. If you paid starting us$5 then let's be real :)

I've got both my Lynxes 5000 for less than us$10 each, with lens cap and NRC. Both needed some naphtha touch under front element but hey, Lynx for price of one roll of Velvia is deal even it needs some work. And I enjoy some DIY just to make connection with camera. If I'd buy those $100-200 Lynxes (who ever buys them???) and got one with frozen shutter, I sure would be angry.

Yesterday seller refunded me us$9.99 for winder because it were not as described, although still useable and working. He thanked me because I "didn't fire negative without any communications". I gave him positive feedback just because he didn't tried to hide or convince me winder is perfect. OK, I got not what I exactly expected, but costs reduced to shipping expenses and I avoided frustration from non-responding seller after deal.
 
HI btgc,

We are in fact in full agreement. There is a relationship between the ad, the seller, the camera, and the price to be taken into account before the red medal reward, so that we keep a realistic proportion.

But in the last case I paid us19 for the camera and "Air Mail at $58", the package having been sent from Canada, and after heavy discussions about the mail cost. BTW, no sign of the real air mail price was on the package.

Therefore, it is more than enough for me that the seller did not take into account the total amount his client is going to invest, obliging him to make sure the camera is working indeed.

No mercy for this kind of sellers, or we all will continue to buy junk time after time. It is in our consumer interest to take common action.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh Ruben,
that's expensive shipping and if camera were listed as working (no matter if seller just believed camera works), then I'd feeling very similar. If seller isn't sure he must describe it clearly "for repair" or at least "untested, bid accordingly" - both cases clearly tell project/parts camera is offered.

So if seller listed it as working, I wish you luck getting back your funds.
 
Unless a camera is marked as having been restored, I always assume that the camera will need to be serviced.

I would urge anyone who buys cameras from online auctions (eBay, Goodwill, others), Craigslist, flea markets, boot sales and antique marts to do the same -- to expect that the camera will need to be serviced.

It is the rule, rather than the exception, for nearly any camera from the late-1970s or earlier to need some kind of work.

Of the cameras that I've owned (more than most, fewer than others), maybe only 10% have gone from the shipping box to "film ready." All of the rest have needed anything from cosmetic cleaning to a major overhaul.

Leaf shutter cameras (except for the Rollei 35) will almost always need to have the shutters serviced. For one reason or another, the Rollei 35 shutter generally doesn't have problems.

And once again, if it has foam seals, it's almost always required that those will have to be replaced.

That's the reality of buying cameras that are 40 to 80 years old.
 
Hi ZeissFan,

I thank your attention and opinion, and would like to take the opportunity in order to return to my original issue, which was the issue of the sticky shutters.

I fully agree that the huge majority of aged rangefinders will need some pilatis to come back to shape, specially in what concerns rangefinder cleaning. Honourable mention due to the Yashicas Electro, which in their turn will need a CLA for other problems like the death penalty issue.

But in your post you say Leaf shutter cameras (except for the Rollei 35) will almost always need to have the shutters serviced.

Yet I insist, that within acceptable tolerances there are no sticky shutter problems in the Konicas Auto S (the mother), nor in the Konicas Auto S2 (the daughter). For example. And if I check things deeper I will find several specific models in which, within acceptable tolerances, the shutter is not serially stuck.

Just as an example that jumps now to my memory, the Lynx 1000 that I love so much, without getting her favours. I bought three models along time, each of them had a different set of problems, but none of them was a stucked shutter. One of them did have a problem related with the shutter capability to carry along it the f/stop ring, but the shutter wasn't stucked.

I think as well that many folks here will agree that while the Olys SP and RC had almost never any stucked shutter, the RDs are champions of the desease.

I assume that your estimation is somewhat based as well on cameras much older than the fixed lens manufactured since the early 60s.

But after all, isn't it obvious to you as well, that not every camera from those years is comming to us with serially stucked shutters ?,

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My comments are based on having at one time or another about 150 cameras (give or take 30 or 40) with leaf shutters. Of those, maybe 10 or 12 haven't needed work.

All have needed viewfinders cleaned and nearly all have needed to have the rangefinders readjusted. Not all, but nearly all.

I just see it as a matter of fact and not an attempt by sellers to deceive. Certainly it happens, and I think sellers should say that this camera doesn't work. Most will say that they don't know how it works, and some outright lie (such as vendors who deal in a lot of cameras and claim not to know if they work).
 
Dear Folks,

I would like very much if we could stop the talk about eBay sellers, and advance a little bit on how may be possible to easily deal with the sticky shutters. Obviously all of us have strong opinions about eBay, but the technical sides of the sticky shutters is still on the table for us to pour on information and thoughts.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
ruben said:
Dear Folks,

I would like very much if we could stop the talk about eBay sellers, and advance a little bit on how may be possible to easily deal with the sticky shutters. Obviously all of us have strong opinions about eBay, but the technical sides of the sticky shutters is still on the table for us to pour on information and thoughts.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...

I posted the link for the easy Canonet shutter repair 10 hours ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom