still fighting defects on film

[sanmich]

I am still having various issues with some defects on my films.
I use now only filtered water for rinsing (I built a 5 micron water filter) and I have also built a vertical, on-the-reels drying device, using a hair dryer.
My life should be perfect, but it ain't...

so a few questions:

1- could an old wetting agent be the source of particles?

2- for you people rolling your own, do you use the first round of your 30m roll? apart of having to clean remains of glue from the small sticky band used to hold the roll in place, I have an incredible amount of shallow scratches on several frames close to the end of the roll. (using Ilford here)

3- after drying the film, a few drops of water splashed there and left huge, perfectly ugly, patterns in the gelatin. I have tried re-rinsing the film, but the patterns are still here. I can't figure why...

Murphy is incredibly creative when it comes to film processing. 25 years that I process mine, and I still discover new ways of messing the stuff up :bang:

 

[sevo]

Try a last rinse in demineralized water. And clean the loader, and get a set of new cartridges...

 

[Bill Clark]

1. After a while I find some sort of goo, mold, spores likes wandering around in the photo flow as they evidently like the environment to live especially in warm weather. I do change it every so often.

2. Yes, I do use the first round from my bulk film.

3. Sounds like minerals present in your water? I find I don't have a spot issue after using Photo-Flo. After using Flo I hang up the film to dry from the Flo sauce.

Dust isn't an issue with me. I use a Shop Vac to clean tops of cabinets, under the refrigerator and other areas hard to get to with the regualr vacuum. Lint from the clothes dryer and stuff during times the windows are open I try to keep down to a reasonable level.

But dust is an issue for those of us who aspire to still use analog photography. But it can be an issue on sensors with digital!

 

[sanmich]

Try a last rinse in demineralized water. And clean the loader, and get a set of new cartridges...

Thanks. I do use the clean water from the reverse osmosis system. It's supposed to be as good as demineralized water

1. I find some sort of goo, mold, spores likes wandering around in the photo flow as they evidently like the environment to live especially in warm weather. I do change it every so often.

ok, thanks. will do that.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Well my bottle of Ilfotol lasted a long time and I think it is a great product, but Ilford in their wisdom used a paper seal inside the cap and, eventually that disintegrated with predictable effects on the films I washed with it. After removing the remains and cleaning the cap and bottle, what was left was fine to use (I filtered it through some coffee filters, which seemed to do the job).

A step forward in the dust exclusion process was using filtered water, and also separate containers, for tempering chems and rinse water. I used to store my containers of chems on the floor of my laundry. After tempering them in the rinse water, any dust on the containers would...find its way onto my films, when I rinsed them. I try to keep everything as clean as possible, now, but, a dedicated clean container for water is a good move, I think. So obvious in hindsight, isn't it?

Also, you mentioned rinsing with filtered water. Please, tell me you're also using filtered water to actually mix your chems, too? Yes, I know the films get rinsed in filtered water, but, if you're not: why permit any opportunity for contamination at any point in the process? Taking a holistic approach to cleanliness is the only sure path to success. My experience has been that, no matter what you do, there are usually a few specks of dust to clone off one's films, and I can live with a dozen or so spots per frame. A few weeks ago, I scanned a frame of B&W and, for the first time, no matter how hard I looked (and I am pretty fussy) I just couldn't find a single speck of dust. Perfection! It takes some persistance, but it can be done. Keep at it.
Cheers
Brett

 

[Bill Clark]

Looking at your web site,which I find is very nice, I see you live in a dusty part of our world. I dry my film in a closet although I will usually keep the bi-fold doors open. The floor is carpeted. Located in a lower level bedroom. I also have used a shower. In both cases I take a coat hanger and get one of my drying clips on it by takeing the coat hanger apart on the top where it curves to hang up. Wire coat hanger. Then I use either the shower curtain rod or clothes curtain rod to hang the hanger! Then clip on the film and use another clip on the bottom for weight to prevent curling.

Fortunately I live in a geographic area with lots of clean water, left here from the last glacial period! Also some nice surface water here. But long winters!

Thanks for using English here!

 

[Sparrow]

... if you're not filtering the output of the hairdryer I would start looking for dust in the airflow

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

... if you're not filtering the output of the hairdryer I would start looking for dust in the airflow

And this, too...

 

[--s]

Yeah, leave the hair dryer to the ladies.

 

[sanmich]

Thanks gents!

I use demineralized water for the chemicals themselves, and filter after mixing (specially for the dev which is mixed from powder and the fix which I know can create some precipitations). I didn't filter the hypo clear.

The fan is used without heating
Please, oh please ask me (or Capa for that instance) how I know it's no good to use the heating) :bang::bang:
and yes, I use an air condition filter between the fan and the tube with the films.
Could the forced air movement create patterns, or dry the gelatine in a way that would create those permanent water tracks I have after accidentally splashing the film?

 

[sevo]

and yes, I use an air condition filter between the fan and the tube with the films.

Air condition filters are no good at micro filtration - they are supposed to prevent the radiator from clogging. You'd need a HEPA filter (which would in its turn need some air source other than a hair dryer, to deliver pressure rather than volume). Just leave out the dryer (or any other fan) entirely, unless (or until) you have tested that your problems are unrelated to the dryer...

 

[Sparrow]

... I wouldn't have thought so, but the steel shaft running in a plastic bearing will put a static charge into anything it can once the humidity is below 80%

 

[sanmich]

Just dont use it. Bad idea

Totally agree!! (just what exactly shouldn't I use??🙂)

Air condition filters are no good at micro filtration - they are supposed to prevent the radiator from clogging. You'd need a HEPA filter (which would in its turn need some air source other than a hair dryer, to deliver pressure rather than volume). Just leave out the dryer (or any other fan) entirely, unless (or until) you have tested that your problems are unrelated to the dryer...

ok, good idea, next batch will go back hanging. I'll also start hunting for a good film cabinet.

... I wouldn't have thought so, but the steel shaft running in a plastic bearing will put a static charge into anything it can once the humidity is below 80%

Sorry, but you lost me here, Stewart...

 

[Bill Clark]

Where you live, dry air isn't it?, you shouldn't need any mechanical dryer.

Let the film hang for longer than it seems like it's dryed to make sure the gelatin isn't soft which can still get dusty. Complete drying also helps prevent scratches!

Hope all this info. helps you!

 

[sanmich]

Where you live, dry air isn't it?, you shouldn't need any mechanical dryer.

Let the film hang for longer than it seems like it's dryed to make sure the gelatin isn't soft which can still get dusty. Complete drying also helps prevent scratches!

Hope all this info. helps you!

Depends on the season, Bill. 50% right now. can climb pretty high in the summer.
I am using the fan only for one reason, to push the air through the filter and so to make sure no dust gets in. It also shortens the drying time (it's cold air but still) so less opportunity for dust to stick on an "open" gelatin. At least that was the thinking.
I must say that I have much less actual dust than in the past with this system.

 

[alistair.o]

As I am having my own developing nightmare right at this moment, let me see if I can help you 😱

Answers to your original questions:

1. Yes. New stuff regularly please.

2. Yes. In your particular case, it could be a build up of gunk on the opening/seals/brush, whatever.

3. ?. You don't say if you unreeled the film and then it was splashed? If not, it could be emulsion damage?

Drying films like a good level of humidity (time allowing).

Hope some or all of this helps.

 

[mwoenv]

Another suggestion: after use, air dry all reels and tanks and anything else that can come in contact with the chemicals and film during next use. Do not wipe them with anything as any lint could dry on surfaces and then get on the film during the next round of development. Also blow off the reels and tanks with a Rocket-air blower prior to use.

 

[charjohncarter]

No suggestions, but some film seem to be more prone to problems than others. I'm thinking of patenting one of the films I use as an air cleaner.

 

[mfogiel]

My usual procedure, is to use demineralized water in the last rinse, with some photo flo AND some pure (burning) alcohol added. After soaking in this for a minute and hanging the strips, I pour this solution over the film, and grab the films at the bottom and pull them away from vertical for a minute, to let the liquid flow away along the edges. I've never had problems with dust or drying marks after this rinse. On the other hand, I did get some problems at times from developers that had residual impurities in them that stuck to the emulsion, so if you are diluting your chemicals from powders, filter them before use.

 

[Sparrow]

Totally agree!! (just what exactly shouldn't I use??🙂)



ok, good idea, next batch will go back hanging. I'll also start hunting for a good film cabinet.



Sorry, but you lost me here, Stewart...

... the hairdryer's fan will have a steel shaft that carries the fan and the motor's armature ... that shaft will probably have plastic bearings (nylon 66 is a popular one nice and cheap and will outlive the rest of the thing) ... however when it spins the shaft and bearing it will generate large amounts of static electricity ... ask any woman with long straight hair about the effect, or look at the way fans on PCs attract dust particles.

The result is that any dust passing through will gets a static charge and Sods Law dictates that if the dust takes a positive charge the film will have a negative one, so the two will attract each other ...