Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
I do quite a bit of shooting B&W (Neopan 400 or HP5 in D76) in available light, hand-holding both Barnack Leicas or an M6. I've had a IIIc or a IIIF since 1963 (and a IIc since 1965), and, given the opportunity, will still reach for the screw mount Leica if I feel that I can use it for whatever I might be doing.
I've never been able to reliably hand-hold below 1/30th second unless I'm sitting (or worse) on the floor or have myself pressed against a wall or column. I'm past 60 now but couldn't hand-hold below 1/30th even in my teens.
What works best for me is 1/30th as a personal slowest limit, a fast lens (an f1.8 or 1.4 - I've used Serenars and/or Nikkors since the beginning, never could afford fast Leitz glass), and push-processing in the darkroom to increase the effective film speed if I find that the ambient conditions so require (I carry a felt-tip pen to mark those cassettes what needs TLC in the darkroom, an essential photographic accessory).
Given these restrictions, a II-series Barnack Leica (IIc or IIf) is generally all that I've ever needed. I don't think that I've used the slow speed dial on my III-series LTM Leicas, or the speeds below 1/30th on the M-series, twice in the past three years.
This includes a couple of recent trips to Italy where roughly one-third of my shots were inside the not well lit, awe-inspiring architecture. The Italian custodians in the churches and cathedrals have, to a man, proven to be a sympathetic lot regarding my choice of camera shooting positions - but after all, it was Italy and that is why I go there) .
I concede that the flash synchronization on the IIf can be handy when the dim light is so poor that even a properly exposed, available light image will be nothing but shadows. This is most often the case with family holidays where one is the photographer designate. Everyone complains at the time, of course, but after the fact, no one opines that there are to many photographs, especially the ladies.
I offer these rambling comments intending to start a discussion. How often do forum members actually use the slow speeds on a Barnack (or other) Leica? I invite your comments.
I've never been able to reliably hand-hold below 1/30th second unless I'm sitting (or worse) on the floor or have myself pressed against a wall or column. I'm past 60 now but couldn't hand-hold below 1/30th even in my teens.
What works best for me is 1/30th as a personal slowest limit, a fast lens (an f1.8 or 1.4 - I've used Serenars and/or Nikkors since the beginning, never could afford fast Leitz glass), and push-processing in the darkroom to increase the effective film speed if I find that the ambient conditions so require (I carry a felt-tip pen to mark those cassettes what needs TLC in the darkroom, an essential photographic accessory).
Given these restrictions, a II-series Barnack Leica (IIc or IIf) is generally all that I've ever needed. I don't think that I've used the slow speed dial on my III-series LTM Leicas, or the speeds below 1/30th on the M-series, twice in the past three years.
This includes a couple of recent trips to Italy where roughly one-third of my shots were inside the not well lit, awe-inspiring architecture. The Italian custodians in the churches and cathedrals have, to a man, proven to be a sympathetic lot regarding my choice of camera shooting positions - but after all, it was Italy and that is why I go there) .
I concede that the flash synchronization on the IIf can be handy when the dim light is so poor that even a properly exposed, available light image will be nothing but shadows. This is most often the case with family holidays where one is the photographer designate. Everyone complains at the time, of course, but after the fact, no one opines that there are to many photographs, especially the ladies.
I offer these rambling comments intending to start a discussion. How often do forum members actually use the slow speeds on a Barnack (or other) Leica? I invite your comments.
Tuolumne
Veteran
I use them all the time. With a Leica/R-D1 I can hand-hold down to 1/4 second. Not all of the time, but often enough to allow me to choose it as an option and hope to get decent results. At that speed nothing is ever tack sharp, but sharp enough to be useable in the right setting where a bit of softness or blur is acceptable. (By "hand hold", I mean supported in my hands only - no cheating with a wall or surface to prop up against.)
/T
/T
bmattock
Veteran
I've gotten a couple shots steady at 1/4 also, but not many. 1/16 is generally about as slow as I dare go, unless I truly have no other option to get the shot. Of course, I'm talking about with a rangefinder and a 50mm lens.
Turtle
Veteran
I asked the same question regarding my Mamiya 7 and bought a monopod. I can reliably gain 1 stop and most of the time two. I am sure I could occassionally nail three, esp if I have something to brace against. I would consider the same for a 35mm RF. some are very small, light and can be slipped under a belt for hands free carriage when not in use. Of course it is not going to allow you snap shots on the hoof, but few can pull off 1/4 whilst walking against a moving target anyway! Best $30 I have spent. Completely changes the way I worked with my Mamiya 7 on a trip to India and I can attribute most of my early morning Ganges shots to Delta 3200 at 1200 at 1/30 or 1/15 at f16 with my 65mm lens. With a 28 on the Leica I reckon 1/8 would be no problem for tack sharp shots pretty well every time with some practice and perhaps a soft release.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
That first one is terrific, Pixtu.
FrankS
Registered User
I wish my IIf had one more slower speed.
Mudman
Well-known
I can handhold a 90mm down to about a 20th of a second, so I do indeed use the slower speeds on my III.
hans voralberg
Veteran
I use slow speed alot, and can reliably hand hold to 1/8th and still have acceptable result, so why not 
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
Thanks for the replies-
Are you fellows shooting completely off-hand or do you brace yourself in some way (lean against a wall, for example)? I'm eager to learn more about your technique.
Are you fellows shooting completely off-hand or do you brace yourself in some way (lean against a wall, for example)? I'm eager to learn more about your technique.
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aad
Not so new now.
Elbows on table, got a great picture of my wife at 1/10. I use 1/25 and 1/10 quite a lot, took some at 1/2 that were fuzzy but fun.
hans voralberg
Veteran
Most of the time of hand, just breathing technique and arms tuck to body. If I can find things to brace on I will
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I regularly shoot at 1/4 and even 1/2 second hand-held, sometimes even one-handed. It's better to get the shot and have it less than tack sharp than to miss it. There are a plethora of "secret techniques" you can learn. Start by not worrying about it. Relax!, put your feet half a meter apart, bend your knees slightly ~ trying to keep the knees locked straight often causes minute tremors in your legs. Again, it's a matter of relaxing. Whenever you have nothing else to do arch your right index finger and practice moving the tip of it straight up and straight down without any other part of your hand moving. Always push the release button with this motion. Use the tip, never the pad of the final digit.
Use a drugstore that has one of those seats with an arm cuff that'll give you blood pressure and pulse readings. The idea is to practice breathing and relaxation so you get the lowest readings possible. Every time you go to the drugstore see how much progress you've made.
Yes, keep your arms tucked in against your body if possible, elbows just above your hips, but don't squeeze them tightly against your body. Keep your muscles relaxed. Shoot 3/4 to the left side if you're right handed, not straight ahead. Your shoulders will be turned a bit from your hip position, and your head a bit more. All of these things help to keep strain off your muscles.
It's mostly a matter of training your brain, getting to the point where you can instantly switch to "completely relaxed mode" from "high pressure fast paced situation mode". If you have time squeeze off an extra shot or two. If not move on to the next situation and don't worry about it.
Some people can handle coffee, some can't and get really jittery. Never drink alcohol on a shoot. NEVER! Low blood sugar isn't good, but the sugar rush from a candy bar can be worse. Eat some crackers instead. And practice, practice, practice. Use up the end of every unfinshed roll practicing.
Use a drugstore that has one of those seats with an arm cuff that'll give you blood pressure and pulse readings. The idea is to practice breathing and relaxation so you get the lowest readings possible. Every time you go to the drugstore see how much progress you've made.
Yes, keep your arms tucked in against your body if possible, elbows just above your hips, but don't squeeze them tightly against your body. Keep your muscles relaxed. Shoot 3/4 to the left side if you're right handed, not straight ahead. Your shoulders will be turned a bit from your hip position, and your head a bit more. All of these things help to keep strain off your muscles.
It's mostly a matter of training your brain, getting to the point where you can instantly switch to "completely relaxed mode" from "high pressure fast paced situation mode". If you have time squeeze off an extra shot or two. If not move on to the next situation and don't worry about it.
Some people can handle coffee, some can't and get really jittery. Never drink alcohol on a shoot. NEVER! Low blood sugar isn't good, but the sugar rush from a candy bar can be worse. Eat some crackers instead. And practice, practice, practice. Use up the end of every unfinshed roll practicing.
maddoc
... likes film again.
With my IIIf I often use 1/10s and sometimes 1/5s and get fairly good results with the elbows on a bar counter or table. With my Ms ... 1/15s is lowest with acceptable results, for me the shutter button of the IIIf is somewhat better to press without to much camera shake.
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
Like the others, I often brace against myself. (there are no handy bar counters in the mountains around here!) I also practice breathing control. I find that I can get semi-reliable sharpness at 1/20 (IIIf BD) with a 50/2 and 1/40 with my canon 85/2. Usually when I'm shooting in light that low, I'm using super high-speed film, which will never be as sharp as some of my regular films.