furcafe
Veteran
The pre-war II/III do have a more durable RF, basically almost impossible to knock out of alignment, but the IIa/IIIa are pretty tough, too, @ least more so than Leicas. You will find the occasional IIa/IIIa that will be slightly vertically misaligned, but that's usually due to the camera having been exposed to hot conditions for a long time, allowing the pitch (glue) that holds the RF assembly in place to soften & shift a bit (the II/III aren't vulnerable to this as their RFs aren't secured by pitch), not the result of shock or vibration per se.
rxmd said:
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Roger,like2fiddle said:
While I am pretty confident in my skill at re-aligning the Bessa rangefinder, it would be nice to see the official instructions. Any possibility of you making the instructions available? I would consider publishing the instructions online for the benefit of the Bessa community.
As for doing the repair yourself, I am sure that a tech could do the better and he should as he being paid for the service. The Bessa was perfect when it came to me, within a week it was out of alignment. Since it was a DIY adjustment, albeit tedious and precise, I decided that it was skill I needed to have as a Bessa owner. I have a keen skepticism of things that I cannot fix, cameras, cars, tools, bikes, etc, simply and effectively in the middle of nowhere.
And in case you are wondering, I can and have CLA'd my Nikons, I have completely disassembled my Nikkor 28 f3.5 and 105mm f2.5, including rebuilding the focusing helicoils, and they are still taking perfect photos after re-assembly.
But I agree with Stephen of CameraQuest, it is best to let the professionals service your Bessa. Who knows, maybe if I would have the local CV tech re-align my Bessa the first time, it would be more stable. I doubt it, since I am sure at this point, that I am causing the problems with my handling of the camera.
BrianPhotog
Well-known
That's my issue, too...pain in the @$$ part of living overseas (perspective, I'm from LA) is shipping cost and waiting time. I've been teaching myself to do *extremely* basic stuff with the help of a local camera collector/restorer I know.thorirv said:
When I do some "fixing" on my gear I take pics and post the instructions on my CV site. I'm not trying to subvert anyone or anything, just be helpful.
If I was back in the South Bay I'd brave the heat and make the drive inland to Stephen without a second thought.
Folks,
As I understand it, Cosina intends its cameras to be worked on by professionals, not amateurs who may damage their camera in the repair attempt. For that reason you will not likely see official Cosina repair instructions for the public of any kind. For that matter, I don't see that kind of info offered by Leica or Zeiss either.
Stephen
As I understand it, Cosina intends its cameras to be worked on by professionals, not amateurs who may damage their camera in the repair attempt. For that reason you will not likely see official Cosina repair instructions for the public of any kind. For that matter, I don't see that kind of info offered by Leica or Zeiss either.
Stephen
stephen,
of course they do, and they should!
but i can think of many occations where it would be preferable for a user to be able to adjust a rangefinder him/herself. and in order to do it well, and correctly, the best thing would be if the manufacturer came out with instruction. i think mamiya solved it well, stating clearly that they DID NOT recommend such actions by a user, and that it would void warranty and such, but for those of us not near a qualified technician, and with impatient shutter finger, it could - and would - be invaluable.
can't speak for others, but in my mind cosina would get many thumbs up if they did...
(fwiw, i can't find the mamiya site anymore, maybe it's down for good. at least the did provide such info, here's a link to a copy should anyone be interested... http://www.tomwestbrook.com/Photography/rangefinder_adj.html )
of course they do, and they should!
but i can think of many occations where it would be preferable for a user to be able to adjust a rangefinder him/herself. and in order to do it well, and correctly, the best thing would be if the manufacturer came out with instruction. i think mamiya solved it well, stating clearly that they DID NOT recommend such actions by a user, and that it would void warranty and such, but for those of us not near a qualified technician, and with impatient shutter finger, it could - and would - be invaluable.
can't speak for others, but in my mind cosina would get many thumbs up if they did...
(fwiw, i can't find the mamiya site anymore, maybe it's down for good. at least the did provide such info, here's a link to a copy should anyone be interested... http://www.tomwestbrook.com/Photography/rangefinder_adj.html )
irq506
just curious
We cameratechs.com are working on getting into the repairs on these cameras. I will know by next week.
After having seen the schematics on them my experienced techs say they can both work on them. We are also trying to secure a solid parts line for them. We would hope to have a repairs schedule worked out by the end of the month to challenge current repair prices and turn around times.
After having seen the schematics on them my experienced techs say they can both work on them. We are also trying to secure a solid parts line for them. We would hope to have a repairs schedule worked out by the end of the month to challenge current repair prices and turn around times.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi Stephen,
It's not so with the Bessa; there are some repair guides floating around, which are apparently partly wrong, but nobody knows which of them are wrong and which aren't. The damage is done - a non-knowledgeable repairman will now try to repair it and spoil it in the process because the information is wrong. If there was a confirmed guide somewhere, less Bessas would be damaged in the process.
Regarding Zeiss you're right, and I know people who haven't bought a Zeiss Ikon because there is no information on rangefinder alignment. That's also why I wouldn't buy a Zeiss Ikon myself; I can't afford to have the camera rangefinder go out of alignment during half a year's fieldwork stay with no possibility of sending it out for service. Waiting two months for the Uzbek mail to deliver my camera is just not an option. So, no Zeiss Ikon for me.
Philipp
Well, with Leica the situation is somewhat different, but from Leica you have things like the US Army's service course material for the "Camera Set Still Picture KS-15(4)", which is in effect a complete service manual for the M2 prepared by Leica, and the rangefinder information is transferable from one Leica to the next. By now, it's common knowledge how to fix a Leica rangefinder.CameraQuest said:
It's not so with the Bessa; there are some repair guides floating around, which are apparently partly wrong, but nobody knows which of them are wrong and which aren't. The damage is done - a non-knowledgeable repairman will now try to repair it and spoil it in the process because the information is wrong. If there was a confirmed guide somewhere, less Bessas would be damaged in the process.
Regarding Zeiss you're right, and I know people who haven't bought a Zeiss Ikon because there is no information on rangefinder alignment. That's also why I wouldn't buy a Zeiss Ikon myself; I can't afford to have the camera rangefinder go out of alignment during half a year's fieldwork stay with no possibility of sending it out for service. Waiting two months for the Uzbek mail to deliver my camera is just not an option. So, no Zeiss Ikon for me.
Philipp
irq506
just curious
Yeah, these things are easy to fix. Its getting parts is the problem. I can repair an R series as long as I have parts. Putting it out there that these units are repairable if there was a repair guide only enhances the chance of people who dont actually know what they are doing getting into them and doing damage. However, if you do know what your doing then no repair manual is needed because, well, you know what you are doing in the first place. A good tech can pick up any camera and repair it, guide or not.
Fact is that there are a LOT more Leica's out there then there are Bessa's, so yes they are infinitely more repairable because they have been around longer.
Fact is that there are a LOT more Leica's out there then there are Bessa's, so yes they are infinitely more repairable because they have been around longer.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Good day to all,
Well, Bessa and I have kissed and made up. I re-aligned the rangefinder and agreed to treat her more gently in the future! We have shot a couple of rolls of Tri-X together, the strips are drying as I write this. So we will see...
I must put a plug in for the local Cosina distributor here in Australia, Mainline Photography. I was contacted in person by them and given the official instructions for aligning Bessa Rangefinders. I will be publishing the documents to my web-site in the near future.
I will report back after I get a chance to review the negatives from our latest encounter.
Well, Bessa and I have kissed and made up. I re-aligned the rangefinder and agreed to treat her more gently in the future! We have shot a couple of rolls of Tri-X together, the strips are drying as I write this. So we will see...
I must put a plug in for the local Cosina distributor here in Australia, Mainline Photography. I was contacted in person by them and given the official instructions for aligning Bessa Rangefinders. I will be publishing the documents to my web-site in the near future.
I will report back after I get a chance to review the negatives from our latest encounter.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Lynn,
Most excellent. CV has made a wonderful line of products (cameras and lenses) and it's good to her the distributor down under is such a stand up type. The world has such a wide range of capabilities and it grand to hear that the standards can be adjusted to fit each of our unique needs.
Let me know when you have them up and keep us in the loop on your experiences.
Thanks.
B2 (;->
Most excellent. CV has made a wonderful line of products (cameras and lenses) and it's good to her the distributor down under is such a stand up type. The world has such a wide range of capabilities and it grand to hear that the standards can be adjusted to fit each of our unique needs.
Let me know when you have them up and keep us in the loop on your experiences.
Thanks.
B2 (;->
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Just to prove I actually own and use a Bessa R2. These photos were taken prior to last instance of rangefinder alignment troubles.
Bessa R2 with VC-S 35mm f2.5 on ERA 100 - D76 Stock
Bessa R2 with VC-S 35mm f2.5 on ERA 100 - D76 Stock
Can you believe she chose to pose with a pawn?!
Bessa R2 with VC-S 35mm f2.5 on ERA 100 - D76 Stock
Bessa R2 with VC-S 35mm f2.5 on ERA 100 - D76 Stock
Can you believe she chose to pose with a pawn?!
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Good. I guess the distributor is aware that sending the camera around the globe for weeks by mail is not always the optimal solution to rangefinder alignment problems
so... who's going to write mr. k and ask for it to be published online? for the benefit of all you know.
(pls. someone with better feel for a language, any language, than i)
(pls. someone with better feel for a language, any language, than i)
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I doubt they'd to that. If a distributor does it, he acknowledges that it may not be practical to send everything around for customer service. Manufacturers have a different approach; a manufacturer's first instinct is usually to protect himself. You get repair manuals for IBM laptops online only because there is a precisely specified list of repairs that IBM will let people do without voiding their warranty. You can do other stuff too, it's all in the manual, but your warranty will be void, and IBM makes that quite clear.
Cosina probably won't publish Bessa repair information, or not until the Bessa line has long been discontinued. If a camera manufacturer published repair information, he would factically endorse people taking a screwdriver to their cameras. If a mere distributor publishes some information and people take a screwdriver to their cameras, it's not the manufacturer's problem if something goes wrong. The only way Cosina could do that would be if they stuck disclaimers all over the thing.
I only wish Cosina (or Stephen) would say "This is wrong" if somebody published wrong or misleading repair information somewhere.
Cosina probably won't publish Bessa repair information, or not until the Bessa line has long been discontinued. If a camera manufacturer published repair information, he would factically endorse people taking a screwdriver to their cameras. If a mere distributor publishes some information and people take a screwdriver to their cameras, it's not the manufacturer's problem if something goes wrong. The only way Cosina could do that would be if they stuck disclaimers all over the thing.
I only wish Cosina (or Stephen) would say "This is wrong" if somebody published wrong or misleading repair information somewhere.
rxmd said:
well, that'd be a start.
personally i have no interest in the whole repair manual. but sending the camera in for adjustment (warranty or not) is kind of depressing when it would take four to six weeks minimum. plus, i didn't buy it in the first place to have it out travelling all the time.
i've been barking like a mad dog about the mamiya take on such a situation, which imo was a very good and professional solution to a known problem (they dropped rf alignment instructions for the mamiya 7 somewhere on the mac web, though, now i can't find it there anymore). and i'm not bashing cv over other manufacturers, it pretty much lies in the nature of rf's that they need adjusting every now and then.
wellwell... maybe i should just put it behind me. if my r3m shows up in the classifieds sometime soon, i obviously didn't manage to adjust it... until then, it's pretty much a 28mm camera
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P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Good day,
I have the "Official Cosina Alignment Instructions" for the R3A in my inbox right now. I presume that R3A instructions would also work for the R2A, R2M, R3A, R3M, R4A and R4M, but you need to check with higher powers before you make that assumption. And, yes, I have the permission of the local distributor to publish the instructions.
I am very busy at the moment, but I will endeavor to get the instructions published on my web-site soon.
Thanks,
I have the "Official Cosina Alignment Instructions" for the R3A in my inbox right now. I presume that R3A instructions would also work for the R2A, R2M, R3A, R3M, R4A and R4M, but you need to check with higher powers before you make that assumption. And, yes, I have the permission of the local distributor to publish the instructions.
I am very busy at the moment, but I will endeavor to get the instructions published on my web-site soon.
Thanks,