Storing XTOL in 2 gallon tank with floating lid?

IMO the best and probably also cheapest system for storing Xtol stock (or similar) are bag-in-box containers like used for boxed wine, which are typically available in 3, 5 and 10 liter sizes here in Europe over Ebay (IDK about the supply situation in the US); this is what to look for (random example, no connection to the seller):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Wine-Ba...255671?hash=item3f37920377:g:KTEAAOSwDk5UKd3q

I have kept Xtol up to 12 months in these bags without problems. The material used is impermeable to oxygen and the bag will not let any air in when you draw developer through the spigot, it will simply contract. It should be noted that the one thing that you cannot do with these bags is running a replenished system (or at least it will get messy).

The key to preventing Xtol from an untimely death is to use water of appropriate quality for mixing the solution. Our tap water is very hard and I live in a (100+ years) old house with questionable plumbing. Traces of heavy metal (copper, iron, lead, who knows) from the plumbing system in your water is something the developing agent in Xtol does not like. This is why I use de-min water for preparing the solution. The other key point is to never shake the solution while dissolving the powder, only stir ;)
 
Yeap! 5 liters of X-TOL in a bag-in-a-box keeps well for almost a year without a single problem. Much cheaper and proven solution. Of course, after 10-11 months I always test the developer with a part of the tongue of the exposed film before processing it.
Locally they sell for 1 euro per 5 liter bag.
 
How do you clean those bags?
Trying to find a US source for them with the box
EDIT: found a few that sells the bags, but not the matching boxes - Do I even need a box?
 
You could re-use the bags after cleaning them (pull the spigot and rinse with clean water) or, for peace of mind, simply discard them after single use. They are cheap enough over here when bought in sets of 10 or 20 bags and don't really add a lot to the total cost of the developer.
I don't bother with the cardboard boxes and keep the bags in a plastic container of appropriate size with a hinged lid. I bought the plastic boxes at the local market of a big drugstore chain where they are sold as storage boxes for washing powder or similar. These are robust and can be cleaned easily in case of you spilled some developer (not very likely with the spigot system). Will see if I can post a pic of the setup later. To tap some developer I put the container on its side and close the lid to the point where only the spigot shows, so the bag cannot accidentally fall out of the container while tapping. Make sure the spigot is at the lowest point of the bag while you tap. The plastic container also gives protection in the case of a leak. But this is very unlikely, as the bags as such are quite robust - I once managed to drop one filled with about three liters on the ground and it stayed intact.

BTW, I use this system for all kinds of darkroom chemistry where I have to keep larger stock solutions of several liters (Kodak HCA, RA-4 developer, RA-4 blix etc.) and it works evenly well with all of them. It also saves storage space (plastic boxes can be put on top of each other) compared to bottles, tanks, jugs ...
 
jalLee2001 said:
Joeswe,

Thanks for the info regarding extol (not shaking). That could explain some of my results:).

John
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It seems some people shake the container when dissolving the powder to speed up the process. This is bad habit as it introduces a lot of oxygen into the solution which will shorten the life of the developer ... Better to use stirring rods made of glass or plastics (the plastic ones are readily available as darkroom accessory from Paterson and probably others).
These allow you to stir the solution which will facilitate the dissolving of the powder without introducing air into the solution.
Also, when using freshly tapped tap water, this could also contain a lot of air. If you do use tap water, let it sit for 24 hours before using it to prepare the stock solution. This is one more problem/hassle you can avoid by simply using demineralized water.
 
GarageBoy said:
Does XTOL store OK in one of these things? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/88372-REG/Doran_Plastic_Storage_Tank_2.html

I know the floating lid is there to keep the oxygen out, but does it really seal up OK?
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I use this very tank for Xtol. It's durable and the spigot is convenient to use. Another plus is that you can mix the developer directly into the tank instead of a separate container. On the negative side, the floating lid does help a bit to keep the oxygen out, but it's far from sealing the developer completely. I bet those wine containers are much better for sealing.

With the plastic tank, I am able to keep my Xtol safe for about 5-6 months. After that, the end of the batch starts oxidizing and turns yellow. When my Xtol reaches this state I will always test it with a leader strip before using it . The good thing is that it either works or doesn't work at all, so you should be quite positive with a quick test. I always use distilled water to mix Xtol and stir slowly when mixing the powder to avoid adding air to the mix.
 
Just use some liter to quart glass bottles with rubber stoppers.

Or Specialty Bottle company . 4 quart bottles and 4 eight oz ones. Use the small ones for one roll, then refill. Buy caps with the inverted cone insert, wash the caps after each use. Dry the inside of the bottle rim so as not to leave residue that will take hold of the cap& insert and destroy it.

Best solution is chemistry bottles with glass stoppers. Fisher Scientific.

Kodak told me there is no home test that is valid to determine the activity of Xtol.
This includes the drop test. Don`t argue with me, argue with Kodak.

Personally I use D76 made from scratch mix chems. I know exactly how old it is and how it has been stored. It is almost free. It last exactly 6 months when a slow fade begins.
 
I see some people are keeping developer for months and months and months and months and months. Wouldn't it be better to accumulate enough exposed film until you can use up the 5 litres of Xtol all in one go? Exposed film can keep for a long time but developer may not.
 
Ronald M said:
Just use some liter to quart glass bottles with rubber stoppers.

Or Specialty Bottle company . 4 quart bottles and 4 eight oz ones. Use the small ones for one roll, then refill. Buy caps with the inverted cone insert, wash the caps after each use. Dry the inside of the bottle rim so as not to leave residue that will take hold of the cap& insert and destroy it.
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Yeah, I thought about bottles too, but not having 8 bottles lying around would be nice
http://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/amber-boston-rounds/larger-sizes These bottles? With the black plastic caps? Or are there other caps?
 
Rayt said:
Exposed film can keep for a long time but developer may not.
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The thing is, while there is a simple test to determine if you have stored your developer too long (of course and despite one person's stubborn insistence this test works also with Xtol :rolleyes:), there is no test to determine if you have stored your exposed film too long.

While most B&W film under favorable conditions don't mind lying around for a couple of weeks or even months between exposure and development, some films are more susceptible to loss of latent image than others (Pan F is an example that comes to my mind). Also with 120 film there can be additional problems like bleed through from backing paper when keeping exposed rolls under less then ideal storage conditions (humidity/heat). This is why tech sheets of film manufacturers generally remind you of developing film as soon as practically possible.

Besides, I don't like waiting for 6 months to see the results. And last but not least, developing 50 rolls of film in one go is definitely not my idea of having fun.
 
Rayt said:
I see some people are keeping developer for months and months and months and months and months. Wouldn't it be better to accumulate enough exposed film until you can use up the 5 litres of Xtol all in one go? Exposed film can keep for a long time but developer may not.
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This has been my approach. I accumulate enough film until I know that I will be able to use up 5L of Xtol in short order--maybe not all in one go exactly, but over the course of a few weeks. Right now I'm finishing up about 30 rolls, which I've developed a few at a time over the last month.

I like this approach, because (1) I want the assurance of knowing that I am always using fresh chemicals, and it is getting harder to buy photochemicals in small-batch quantities, (2) I don't mind waiting a while before seeing the results of my shooting, (3) I store my exposed film carefully in the refrigerator, and (4) I don't currently shoot any film that is known to suffer rapid latent image loss.
 
GarageBoy said:
Yeah, I thought about bottles too, but not having 8 bottles lying around would be nice
http://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/amber-boston-rounds/larger-sizes These bottles? With the black plastic caps? Or are there other caps?
Click to expand...

Things change. I ordered bottles and caps as separate items and there was a choice of how the caps sealed, flat material of several types and the cone seal. I always purchased twice as many caps a bottles as that is what normally broke first.

I suppose if you don`t clean the sealing area , the cone sticks and breaks the connection with the cap. Most people are not as careful and I suppose they got many complaints.

Dark Boston rounds are what you want.

Try a phone call to see what they offer . Also Fisher Scientific.

In todays economy, everything is basically junk made to a price or cost reduced or to comply to one government regulation or another. It is housing construction, clothing, car fuel, shoes, heating and A/C
equipment, furniture, carpet, wood flooring, you name it.
 
;)I collected spent wine boxes from my wife. Works a charm, and she paid for my storage requirements. ;)
 
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